 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Joe_R
Date: 2008-06-17 17:06
Attachment: Picture 021.jpg (1498k)
I've made a previous post about an Adler @ Co. Bb FB clarinet I recently acquired.
I have been studying the instrument very closely while I wait for one this BB members to recondition it for me.
There are sets of Alpha Numeric markings on 6 places of the clarinet.
1. On the end of the RH joint tenion. (Engraved in the wood)
1. On the register key
1. On each tenion ring
1. On the spatula key (Pic above) and
1. On the bottom of the bell. (Engraved in the wood)
All markings are identical. The serial number 4987 is in the usual places on the joints. My question is;
Is this typical of a German instrument?
Any thoughts on this?
Post Edited (2008-06-17 17:08)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-06-18 02:37
I've only seen numbers or letters in keywork on instruments either as part numbers, part of the serial number or the keywork mounter or finisher's initials, but these are usually on the undersides of key touches or engraved or scribed inside pad cups, so they would normally be hidden from view.
I think these numbers may possibly be identification numbers that have been engraved either by a previous owner, or by the institution it may have onced belonged to should it be lost or stolen and later recovered.
Nowadays we either use a UV marker to write our post code and house number on it in a hidden place, 'Smartwater' or have a microchip fitted.
Looks like a couple of numbers were crossed out as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-06-18 07:56
Could it just be the person who made the instrument? My Eatons are inscribed with an inital. Also my classical clarinets are inscribed my the maker.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-06-18 08:22
> I think these numbers may possibly be identification numbers that have
> been engraved either by a previous owner, or by the institution it may
> have onced belonged to should it be lost or stolen and later recovered.
Seconded. It is quite common to abuse the LH spatula for that. Unfortunately one cannot decipher the letters from the picture (do I see a PWSM there?). Could you post a transcript?
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-06-18 13:50
"Could it just be the person who made the instrument? My Eatons are inscribed with an inital. Also my classical clarinets are inscribed my the maker."
It's common on older Selmer clarinets to see a single letter on the underside of the RH E/B touch, or an initial hidden somewhere on the joint (visible when the keys ar off), but manufacturers certainly wouldn't allow a series of numbers and letters to be etched in such a conspicuous place as the LH F#/C# lever.
B&H clarinets had numbers on the undersides of their keywork, but that related to a part number should a replacement key need to be ordered.
Sometimes if several sets of keys are all plated together and therefore they all get mixed up, they usually have a mark (a series of dots or lines) or part of the serial number or the manufacturing number engraved in a hidden area (inside pad cups, undersides of key arms or undersides of key touches) when being dismantled in preparation for plating, so once they're all back in one mixed up bundle, they can be sorted out by the mark or number that corresponds to the particular instrument they came from.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Joe_R
Date: 2008-06-18 17:37
I am having my daughter take a picture of the bottom of the bell and will post it later.
Yes, you do see PWSM.
The full inscription is P.W.S.M t D t E S T 55
I don't think these are part numbers. The same character string appears in 6 places. The characters on the end of the upper tenion are very small as you can imagine. This was very tedious and meticulous work.
I'll post a better pic when I receive it.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-06-18 17:59
Hmm. PWSM is the abbreviation for Music Colleges (Państwowa Wyższa Szkoła Muzyczna) in Poland.
Edit: Drats, Chris, you beat me at it. Grrr.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2008-06-18 18:02)
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Author: Joe_R
Date: 2008-06-18 18:29
Thanks again Chris and Ben.
I've already come to the conclusion that this is a rare instrument, because in all my research only one other has been found. It is an A clarinet in the Sir Nicholas Shackleton and is the same vintage.
Can I reasonably assume the because it was owned by the Warsaw Music Academy, that it must be a quality instrument?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-06-18 19:20
> Can I reasonably assume the because it was owned by the Warsaw Music
> Academy, that it must be a quality instrument?
That depends. Don't even Juilliard or Oberlin have a CSO lying around somewhere? ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
What counts is how it plays - even among quality instruments there is the occasional dud, and also lesser makers may have a gem in their portfolio.
(FWIW, Helmut Eisel plays or played an Adler clarinet, so I don't think they were just cheap student instruments)
--
Ben
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Author: Joe_R
Date: 2008-06-18 19:38
How it plays is indeed the question. It appears to be in excellent condition (No cracks or repaired cracks. No nicks. Solid German silver keys).
My daughter can get most notes out but it needs cleaning, corks and pads.
I'm waiting for Steve Sklar to service it. He's currently back up with work.
I can't wait to hear my daughter play a full Boehm clarinet with a German bore.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-06-18 23:53
I checked the bore on my Selmer full Boehms yesterday and the flare in the bore starts further down the lower joint compared to a standard Boehm (to prevent the tenon being too thin or the bell having to be made much wider than normal as seen on Selmer basset clarinets), but it's a gentle curved taper as seen in standard Boehms as opposed to the more conical (straight-sided) taper of the flare seen in German bore clarinets.
Maybe Steve could take measurements of the bore and flared section and compare it with his Leblanc to see what the differences are.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2008-06-19 18:40
The bottom flare is there primarily to provide acoustic correction between the notes in the lower and upper registers (end correction). Its effect is almost entirely on the lowest two semitones on the instrument and their harmonics so as the length of instrument is extended the flare will always move down with those last semitones. Thats why on say bass clarinet to low C the flare is right at bottom and not opposite the E/Eb region.
Strictly the Bass needs no end correction as the very lowest notes are used only in the bottom register but it does have also some influence on the tonal projection.
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Author: Joe_R
Date: 2008-06-19 19:32
On this Adler, the flare is far below the Eb tone hole to the point that I cannot even put my finger inside and reach the Eb tone hole. The flare is also far more conical than my pre R13 buffet.
Another reason I believe this is a German bore is the barrel is only 58mm long and the upper joint is longer than both the Buffet and the Noblet 40 that I have, and yet it plays in tune with both of them.
If I had to describe its sound, I would say it has a noticeably more authoritarian sound than the Buffet and the Noblet.
I guess Steve will be the final abattoir on weather this full Boehm is a German bore or not.
Thank you all for the replies.
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