 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-06-10 19:34
I started clarinet lessons as a rank beginner about 8 or 9 weeks ago. I have an excellent teacher I think. I'm currently in lesson 11, Rubank Elementary Method, and my teacher says I am making very good progress.
I find I can practice for 15 to 20 minutes and then I start to lose my embouchure (numb lips, aching jaws, etc.). I am able to achieve very good tone up to that point, then I must wait for an hour, or so, before being able to continue with good tone quality. After that, I can only play for shorter and shorter intervals before the embouchure collapses.
My question (and I know that I am very impatient) to you is how long would you think it would be before I can practice for a significantly longer time without the blow-up in embouchure occuring?
Also, will I ever be able to relax a bit, or is it always going to be that I have to maintain such a rigid embouchure (I was hoping eventually the muscles would take care of this, and it would seem easier)?
I'm much older than the average beginning clarinetist (70); however, I am in very good health (second in state in the last racquetball tourney I attended in my age group), so I don't think it has so much to do with age.
I really would appreciate your comments and advice on this.
CarlT
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Author: time2walkthedog
Date: 2008-06-10 21:43
I look forward to other replies to this thread given I suffer from the same problem. Many moons ago when I was in school taking lessons and playing every day I did not have this issue, but now, with work/kids/dog.... I find it hard to practice more than a few times a week (typically ~30min each time) so when I show up at our weekly 2hr community band practice I have a very tough time playing during the last 30 minutes- especially if I have to play in the lower register (and it took me a while to work up to 60-90 minutes of playable time!)
I have found one trick that helps a lot. I practice on reeds that are harder than the ones I use during rehearsals. I will sometimes even begin our rehearsals using a harder reed, but when I feel my embouchure failing, I'll switch to the softer reed.
A nice side effect of this approach is that my 'hard' reeds over time have become my 'soft' reeds...
I guess my suggestion is to play long tones and take the advice of the more experienced players..but if you need a break, go with a softer reed!
Good luck
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-06-10 22:31
Time2, how long did it take you to be able to play 60-90 minutes?
I hope some of you teachers of adults will chime in and give me some of your student's progress with respect to embouchure development.
I have read a thread where one of you teachers say it takes about a year to really develop and control a good embouchure. Is there any way to speed that up? I'm "chomping at the bits" to be able to practice more. Sometimes I even just finger the notes without blowing tones, and that seems to help my fingering a bit. Am I on the right track here? Any other hints?
CarlT
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-06-11 00:24
Sorry...I don't think there's any way to speed up your natural speed of embouchure development. Notice I said "your natural speed" because everyone's muscles work differently. I have a student who's been playing about a year now, and he's finally "got" it. Some people may take longer. Some may take shorter. You wouldn't try to run a marathon after only running around the block, right?
You are doing the right things by practicing without blowing. My other recommendation would be to stop playing before it starts losing control, and to schedule several practice sessions a day rather than trying to do it all at once. Stamina takes a little time.
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-06-11 00:30
Thanks, Katrina. You just confirmed what I was afraid of. It's just that I am so anxious to make progress now that this new world has opened up for me :-)
CarlT
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-06-11 02:59
Try this
1. Finger low G (thub plus 3 left fingers, 3 right fingers
2. Imagine a 16lb bowling ball between your feet, actually suck the air through the clarinet as if trying to lift the bowling ball and have it stick to the end of the bell.
3. Pay carefull attention to the shape of your lips.
4. When you have inhaled fully and lifted the bowling ball (mentally with the energy of your inhale) move nothing, keep your lips in the same exact position and just turn the air around and exhale. Imagine the bowling ball pulling the air out of your body.
5. do this in front of a mirror, when you "suck" the air into a clarinet you will form a perfect embouchure by perfect I mean an embouchure that does not interfere with the vibration of the reed. (non interferance with the reed is a prime directive). The first few times you do this you will feel your mouth position want to change on exhale. Practice this untill the only thing changing is the direction of the air.
6. If your embouchure is different than what you get when you try this. Most likely you're using too much pressure and that's what is fatiguing you.
Now someone on this list has made a suggestion, you can actually try what I sugested or you can read it, imagine that I'm full of crap and tell me it doesn't work. But I would love if any one who read the previous paragraph to try it and tell me what your results are. It will either improve your sound or it won't. if you don't try it you won't know. I'm often taken back, by the complete lack of energy to "try" doing something different, instead it's always easier to "BUY" a new piece of gear.
Can you imagine someone walking up to VanGough and admiring on of his paintings say, " nice sun flowers, what kind of brush do you use?"
Tom Puwalski, the artist formerly known as Sarge
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-06-11 03:05
Tom, hey I'll try anything once! My clarinet is up for the night, but I tried it a bit without the instrument, and I believe it is different from my regular embouchure. I will work on it and post the results when I have given it enough time.
Thanks,
CarlT
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-06-11 03:34
I posted about a closely related topic- Leaky embouchure
Just like running, or cycling, or any sport for that matter, you have to build muscle and stamina to go longer, faster, etc... It's the same with the embouchure. The more you practice the stronger it will get, but at the same time, if you don't practice as much, or as frequently you will lose it much like a runner gaining a belly from not running. hmm...sounds like me.
BTW
Tom,
That's a neat analogy.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-06-11 04:07
try 15 minutes 2x a day. time it. 15 min today, 16 minutes tomorrow, etc.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: William
Date: 2008-06-11 14:31
"Two a day" practices work for the NFL--and also for the clarinetist. The important thing about building embouchure endurance is simply [drum roll, BRRRRRRRRRRRR] practice, practice, and more practice--focused, consistant everyday techique building musical workouts. I also studied from the Rubank book when I was first starting lessons and I used to review everything that I had already played in the book before beginning my next lessons new assignment. Eventually, I used the entire Rubank book as a warm-up before beginning my new Lazarus book studies. Rubank in the morning, Lazarus in the afternoon--and often a school or city band rehersal that evening. As a high school student, I could play forever and never get tired (embouchure, that is). Point is, just consistant everyday practice--twice a day if possible--is all you need to build up your embouchure. Also, try thinking of the bowling ball--interesting concept...........
BTW, Tom Ridenour--a "double-lip player" described the clarinet embouchure to me as if "sucking throw a soda straw really hard". Also, keep the back of your tongue arched as if "imitating a cats hiss". Often, silly descriptive images are worth a thousand "this is how to do it" words.
Give them a try--doesn't hurt and may very well help.
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2008-06-11 15:57
CarlT,
I've been playing clarinet for over a two decade and I can assure you the embouchure strengthens over time. But the key is to practice every day. Since you are probably retired, you can invest the time necessary to build up your embouchure.
Several years ago my work schedule changed so that I could only play clarinet on the weekends. After a couple of weeks of not playing every day, my embouchure would die after 20 - 30 minutes. I have since switched to softer reeds so I can play longer but my tone is no longer as pleasing (to me at least). (As a side note I picked up flute during that time and I can play it for hours and not get embouchure fatigue.)
I understand your frustration because you spend all this time setting up your clarinet, soaking a reed, testing the reed, choosing another reed etc. After all that you play a page of music and then your embouchure dies. You want to keep playing but you can no longer maintain the seal.
Here is a list of elements to a good embouchure:
Stretched chin - like when you're shaving
Filled in cheeks - so that when you bite down you can chew the insides of your mouth
Open throat - like yawning but with your mouth closed
Flat tongue - like saying heeeee
Try doing one of these elements, relax, and do it again. See how your sound changes. Each of the elements changes your embouchure in a different way.
As a beginner you will probably remember to do one of the above at a time. Eventually all the elements will become a habit.
A good way to perfect your embouchure is to practice holding the embouchure position during non-playing times. This will also help to habituate your muscles to the clarinet embouchure.
And yes, the clarinet embouchure is fairly rigid, all these muscles must be in play doing their thing so you can get a good tone.
Good luck,
Bartmann
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Author: Philcoman
Date: 2008-06-11 19:22
And develop patience. You'll be enjoying clarient playing for years to come, always progressing and addressing challenges. Let your excellent teacher be your first source of information, relax and enjoy the process!
"If you want to do something, you do it, and handle the obstacles as they come." --Benny Goodman
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-06-16 14:46
Without biting, as mentioned in my response to your other site, it took me about two years to develop my emboucher where I could play an entire rehearsal , concert, or lengthy practice. Also, my tone quality, timbre, was exceptinally good, in the opinion of Alburtis Meyers, director of the Allentown Band. All ancient history now, but try not to bite.
richard smith
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-06-16 15:20
I tried this technique and do like the concept however there is an aspect to it that I'm not sure about. It is dependent on how you form your lips/embouchure before sucking up the bowling ball. If you have a collapsed embouchure then it will remain collapsed when you try to reverse the process. About a month ago Ed Palanker responded to a post of mine. I was adjusting reeds until virtually no biting was required to produce a clear tone. Ed responded that this approach was too extreme and would no doubt produce tone without enough body to the sound. The conclusion for me was clarinet playing involves some biting....how much is the question. Beginning clarinetists should focus on forming a good embouchure and using appropriate reed strengths. The reeds should not close off easily.....many times beginners think the reeds are too hard/stiff/resistant when the cause is a reed that is closing off when they play. When I sustain a long tone and try to bite the reed shut it will become muted but not stop. The reed is too heavy of course when there is lots of extraneous air sound in the tone. Isometrics can be used to build embouchure muscles and other facial exercises...yoga stuff. but I'm of the opinion that endurance shouldn't be a problem with beginners. This is more a result of an impropriate embouchure and/or reed strength.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2008-06-17 16:44)
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-06-16 22:08
Tom Puwalski wrote: "So has anyone tried it yet?"
Tom, I did try your bowling ball idea, and I am sorry I took so long to respond to your post.
When I actually tried the bowling ball concept, I found it to be very much how I'd been instructed to form my embrochure anyway. So I believe it reinforced what I was taught to do.
My problem is simply stamina, but I can tell progress from week-to-week in my stamina. I believe several have hit on it...just practice, practice, practice, and the embrochure muscles will develop. I'll also pass on to you what my teacher told me about practice. He said stop practicing as soon as I started having problems with the embrochure, and don't come back to it for at least double the amount of time that I had been practicing. That, too, seems to be effective. I can practice 15-20 minutes, stop for 30-40, etc., then come back to it. I am retired, so I can do that.
In another post I explained that I had just started using a mp patch, and for me, that has helped my embrochure (and thus stable tones) more than anything (hasn't done a thing for my stamina though :-).
I have resigned myself to be more patient and know that it will just take time.
Thanks to all who posted.
CarlT
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