 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: smk
Date: 2008-06-10 21:17
I have a new Fobes A clarinet barrel, which is noticeably better than my Buffet barrel, but with one problem. When it is pushed in fully, where you have wood against wood below and above the cork on the lower end of the barrel, it sticks, won't turn, and is dangerously hard to remove. Is this worth returning to the store, or is there a reasonable way to correct it myself?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-06-10 22:14
The tenon situation is a little more serious IMO than the barrel being too tight and requires a technician if you do not absolutely know what you are doing. Being recently in the barrel business I have found that there are no universal dimensions for any brand or any time period within a brand and the chore of an aftermarket maker is tough to get every one to fit just right on every clarinet without having the clarinet in hand to fine tune the openings. Too tight is actually better than too loose because it can usually easily be sanded with 400 grit sandpaper wrapped around a dowel by hand or with a sanding drum in a drill press. The trick is to sand the entire depth of the socket evenly top to bottom. If you like the barrel except for the fit it would be worth your while to spend a few minutes sanding a little bit, testing for fit, and sanding a little more. If you are DIY challenged then by all means take it back and try more barrels. Wood will swell too with moisture and sometimes minor adjustments are needed - do not mess with the bore of the barrel however.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-06-10 23:13
Good advise Omar, if you can't do it yourself take it to a tech, it shouldn't cost very much and should only take a few minutes. Remember, every barrel is different. Just don't let them, or you, take off too much. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (listen to a little Mozart)
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Author: Clark W Fobes
Date: 2008-06-10 23:15
It's been difficult to try to accommodate the various tenons sizes. I try not to get them too big and like a good fit. You are welcome to send it to me directly and I can open the tenon a bit. These tend to be tight only when all the way on , because the Buffet tenons are 0.010" larger at the shoulder than at the end of the tenon.
If you want to adjust it yourself take a small piece of 180 sandpaper and work on about the first 1/4" from the outside end of the tenon. It should not "grab" when you use cork grease. Finish it out with 400 sandpaper.
But, if you send it to me I will fix it for free and mail it back to you for free.
I warranty all of my wood products against change or cracking for a period of one year after the date of purchase. I have now sold well over 1,000 barrels and extensions and to my knowledge only about 2 dozen have cracked. That's a pretty good track record!
Clark W Fobes
130 Beverly St.
San Francicco, CA 94132
clark@clarkwfobes.com
Clark W Fobes - Clarinet & Saxophone Products
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-06-11 00:55
i was just about to say sand paper and your finger. feel free to spin around for a good 30 minutes and you should be good to go.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-06-11 01:22
Tenon fitting is tricky.
If you are a DIY...Try to hold the sandpaper parallel to the sidewall.
Wrapping the paper on a stick or dowel rod helps.
Frankly, Mr. Fobes is offering you a job done by a pro. I would avail myself of the opportunity.
FWIW tenons are highly variable from one horn to another of the same brand and same model. Changes as little as .001 inch can make a difference.
The "official" way to enlarge a socket is a specially made scraper plane blade that trues up the socket. ( Mine was made by a machine shop).
I am sure that is what Clark Fobes is offering to do (or similar method done on a lathe).
I LOVE his Eb extensions.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2008-06-11 01:27)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-06-11 01:24
"i was just about to say sand paper and your finger. feel free to spin around for a good 30 minutes and you should be good to go."
...Is this supposed to be serious advice?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-06-11 01:33
Take Clark up on his offer - he is a true gentleman and skilled craftsman. Few have the custom tools like Allan but he too makes handsome work. A finger and sandpaper is not a good idea because you sand unevenly and not usually the whole length of the socket. A very few hundred-ths millimeter or thousand-ths of an inch taken off is usually all that is needed.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-06-11 01:39
All this recent talk about Mr. Fobes's products is making me want to try his barrels to go along with my San Fransisco CF+ mouthpiece. Uh oh! must have attack!!!!!!
Seriously though, I'd be afraid to fit my own barrel if it were to tight. You can't replace what you took off. No sense in ruining a great barrel and throwing out $175 if Mr. Fobes offers to adjust it for free, TOTALY free of charge I might add (minus the cost of shipping it to him). Well mabey I'd do it if I had to have it for the NY Phil audition or something.
Mr. Fobes,
I know you said it's hard to find any median tenon size to fit your barrels to, but is there one instrument or brand which you do size tem to, such as the instrument you test them on? Do you test them on more than one instrument/brand?
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Author: Clark W Fobes
Date: 2008-06-11 02:14
Yikes!
I did not intend to set off an entire string on adjusting barrels. AND perhaps it was not good advice for me to suggest sanding the joint on your own, because not all of us have the same sensitivity or skill levels.
The adjustment is quite simple when one has a lathe and I do this almost every day as part of the final adjustment of the barrel joint.
I have made two testers that match my 2007 Buffet R-13. One we use in the shop to test the barrel joints as they come off the lathe. The other I keep in my studio and test the barrels for fit on that before I play test them on my new instrument. I can adjust them at this time if necessary.These are slightly large for my 1976 vintage R-13, but I assume that over time that tenon has a worn a bit. My barrel tenons have a very slight taper near the large end and can be opened slightly to accommodate slightly larger BUFFET tenons. The industry is fairly standard across the board with OD tenon dimensions, so my barrels fit the common popular models such as Leblanc, Yamaha and Selmer. The newer Selmer models (Signature and Recital) have slightly longer tenons and i am correcting for this in my next run of Selmer barrels. The older Selmers like the Series 9, Series 10 and Centered Tones all have very similar dimensions to Buffet.
Over many years of playing and making barrels, one of the minor repair issues that has bothered me the most is a loose barrel joint where it meets the clarinet. Not only is it irksome to have the barrel suddenly move when you are playing, but I am convinced that the clarinet and barrel respond better when the joints match up properly. I also like the mouthpiece to be absolutely snug in the barrel with now "wobble". I achieve this by applying a cork on the mouthpiece that extends the full length of the tenon. This works particularly well in the case of bass clarinet mouthpieces.
I doubt if most people realize that I play test every barrel and every pro mouthpiece. It is part of the art. Even though I have a "formula" for my barrels that I follow pretty closely I allow for small differences that give each barrel a slightly different character. It would be a rather uninteresting world if we all wanted exactly the same thing and all wanted to play with the same sound!
Clark
Clark W Fobes - Clarinet & Saxophone Products
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-06-11 02:38
Clark says:
>Not only is it irksome to have the barrel suddenly move when you are playing, >but I am convinced that the clarinet and barrel respond better when the joints >match up properly
Over the years, I have found that having the mouthpiece snug in the barrel is essential to good response. At one time I had a mouthpiece that seemed to have changed, no matter what reeds I put on. I was convinced that somehow the facing had warped. It occurred to me that the mouthpiece was fitting a bit loose. Once I had the cork replaced it played great-exactly as I remembered.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2008-06-11 04:13
Hi Clark & All:
The FOBES barrels I use on my R-13 were a little snug when Clark and I first tried them in NYC. I won't repeat the story of how we managed to get one of the really tight fitting barrels off...it's too embarrassing!
Clark did suggest I do some minor sanding myself, which worked out just fine. He said go a little bit at a time, so I did, and with patience, it now fits just fine. I use both my FOBES Eb Grenadilla, and my Bb Cocobolo every day/night at WICKED on Broadway, so they get lots of use. The Cocobolo seemed to change (for the better) more quickly than the Grenadilla. I'm not sure if it's the Eb-Bb thing, or just the nature of the wood, but the Bb barrel required a little more sanding than the Eb barrel. Now they both play great, so thanks again Clark for your fine products. We are lucky you are so accommodating to our needs.
I would also suggest those of you who do have serious tight fitting barrel issues, to send the barrel back to Clark. If it's only a simple problem that can easily be fixed with the sandpaper mentioned, then give it a try. Lets not bother Clark with a thousand barrel returns. Most of the barrels I've tried fit just fine on the dozens of horns I have recently played. Clark is very consistent with his products, and as you know, he plays everything before it goes out.
Lets remember there have been, and still are, fine clarinet equipment craftsmen out there, who carefully monitor their products so we get their very best. Clark is one of those craftsmen, and also a fine clarinetist!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-06-11 06:04
Attachment: BlackKrausSynthNeckCork.JPG (14k)
> I also like the mouthpiece to be absolutely snug in the barrel
> with now "wobble". I achieve this by applying a cork on the
> mouthpiece that extends the full length of the tenon. This works
> particularly well in the case of bass clarinet mouthpieces.
It can also be a problem on bass clarinet necks with a cork tenon (which most good modern bass clarinets have) even if the tenon and socket dimentions are relatively accurate because of the very big lever.
Recently I needed to change the cork on my bass clarinet neck so I tried the Kraus black synthetic cork. They (and others) claim it works well for tenons unlike most (all?) other synthetic corks, because it is different. They recommend it especially when needing to prevent wobble. It's possible that a slightly thicker natural cork would have prevented all wobble too, but I am not sure about that actually.
The Kraus synthetic cork is great on the neck tenon and even with the very big lever there is no wobble at all. It does have a disadvantage that it's much harder to sand, so it took much longer and more effort to put it. It is also supposed to be more specific about which types of glue you can use for gluing it. Some contact cements aren't good, though I had no problem with the one I use (more details on the Kraus Music website if anyone is interested). I wouldn't use it for most tenon corks but in some cases it may be worth it.
I attached a photo.
Nitai
Post Edited (2008-06-11 10:43)
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