 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2008-05-28 14:07
The joints on my new clarinet seem too tight. The bell and barrel are not too bad but the upper and lower section are difficult to put together and take apart. Especially taking apart. Is there device of some sort to sand the cork on the upper section so that it is easier to put together? I don't want to leave it in the shop if I don't have to
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-28 14:23
You should contact a tech and make an appointment with them so they can refit the joints there and then.
It's not uncommon for joints to be tight on a new clarinet, though usually it's not just the cork that's tight - the wood can swell on the tenons making them bind in the sockets (and difficult to take apart).
It's better to get this sorted out sooner rather than later, though it can be done within an hour provided you make an appointment with your tech first. They will have to take the top joint side and trill keys off as well as the ring key for LH2 to refit the tenon properly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-05-28 14:37
I agree with Chris, but what about hard rubber? I have a set with tight middle joints and I suggest plenty of whatever-it-is to grease them up and they will wear in, if not be careful what you wish for, for if the wood changes in the wrong direction you may lose your joint and find yourself with a heavy thumb before the joint hits the floor.
Post Edited (2008-05-28 14:38)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-05-28 15:20
Hello,
This is a very easy fix, and not one that would require a trip to the repairman's shop, in my opinion. Just cut a strip of fairly fine sandpaper (400 grit should do it) and sand the tenon joint slowly, checking often for fit. Mr. Friedland is quite right that one can go too far with bad consequences. Rubber is easier to sand than wood.
If any of this frightens you, take it to a repairman!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-28 15:26
It may be an easy fix for anyone used to doing this kind of work all the time.
But for a novice it's really best left alone as more often than not, more harm can be done than good even though the best intentions are there (and you'll save yourself the cost of having the tenon recorked if it goes wrong).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2008-05-28 15:39
Hello,
This is a very easy fix, and not one that would require a trip to the repairman's shop, in my opinion. Just cut a strip of fairly fine sandpaper (400 grit should do it) and sand the tenon joint slowly, checking often for fit. Mr. Friedland is quite right that one can go too far with bad consequences. Rubber is easier to sand than wood.
If any of this frightens you, take it to a repairman!
The point Mr. Friedland made is what scares me. I would die if my lower joint fell off and hit the floor. I may just try his suggestion and use plenty of cork grease for a while and see if it gets better. If not then I'll just take to the tech.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-05-28 15:51
I would suggest using a lot of cork grease AND taking it to a repairman.
This is not a fix that should cost any (significant) amount of money, but do take it to someone with whom you can sit there and watch the work done (if possible).
It is, as mentioned above, a common thing that must be adjusted with new horns.
Also Kristin, your isp doesn't betray where you are and I've forgotten from your previous posts...but isn't it just going to get more humid where you are during this season?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-28 15:52
Does it bind solid once the joints are together, and judder (and make a creaking sound) when you take it apart?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2008-05-28 16:05
I would suggest using a lot of cork grease AND taking it to a repairman.
This is not a fix that should cost any (significant) amount of money, but do take it to someone with whom you can sit there and watch the work done (if possible).
It is, as mentioned above, a common thing that must be adjusted with new horns.
Also Kristin, your isp doesn't betray where you are and I've forgotten from your previous posts...but isn't it just going to get more humid where you are during this season?
James
Gnothi Seauton
I'm in Louisiana and the humidity is already 40% and yes it will get worse. The Clarinet came from Navada by the way.
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2008-05-28 16:10
Does it bind solid once the joints are together, and judder (and make a creaking sound) when you take it apart?
Well it's hard to get it to break free but once it does it doesn't creak or make any other noise. Once I get it moving it's easier but still tight until I get it half way off.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-28 16:36
Sounds like the wood is tight due to humidity, but this can be sorted out.
One thing you don't want to happen is to remove too much wood from the tenon rings as this can make the joints rock (even if the cork is fairly thick) and cause problems with the long Bb regulation.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2008-05-28 17:28
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Be very, very careful - best take it to a good repairman.
>
> When the seasons change and you have a wobbly joint you may
> wish you had taken it to a repairman if you sand the wood at
> all.
>
I'm just going to leave it as is for now and use plenty of cork grease everytime I put it together and see if it breaks in. Oh that reminds me. Does it hurt to put pressure on the pads when assembling? I don't think it can be avoided though.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-28 17:55
Just make sure you don't stress the keywork when assembling, but applying pressure (though not excessive) can be applied to the pads during assembly/disassembly - this can't be completely avoided, but try not to use too much force (even though it's easier said than done).
Hold the top joint in your left hand (palm upwards) so your fingers hold the rings down when you close them around the joint, and hold the lower joint in your right hand (palm downwards) with the thumb and base of your thumb holding the two largest pad cups closed (and your fingers closing around the joint).
This way you are less likely of bending any keys upwards (as the keys are being held closed so they can't be bent any further) and also raising the link between the joints which will prevent the cork on the underside of the linkage getting torn off.
Don't use the undersides of the lower joint E/B and F#/C# touches for extra leverage as this will put out the regulation.
If you're having real trouble getting the joints apart (as the wood has bound), then very slightly rock the joints while turning them to free the binding tenon from the socket.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-05-29 01:32
this wouldn't happen to be a buffet would it?
a very common problem with new buffet's recently - very annoying
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-29 10:02
Also common with Leblancs and Selmers (and others) - it's just one of those things with new wooden instruments during the playing-in period, and not a make specific thing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-05-29 10:08
Chris P wrote:
> Also common with Leblancs and Selmers (and others) - it's just
> one of those things with new wooden instruments during the
> playing-in period, and not a make specific thing.
...unless the tenons have metal sleeves. (of course, there would still be the cork issue)
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-05-29 12:19
"...unless the tenons have metal sleeves. (of course, there would still be the cork issue"
With the metal sleeves it's still can get stuck. For example because of the wood at the other side of the cork closer to the joint itself, or maybe the socket. I recently saw an Amati that was too tight in the socket and it had a metal cap/sleeve.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-05-29 12:34
Paul,
For clarifications sake the instrument is a Selmer 10S II. (info from previous thread).
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-05-29 13:00
maybe age has dulled my memory, but i don't remember this happening when i was a kid ; perhaps this is a sign of less aging in the wood. or maybe my mind has gone to mush and i simply dont remember this happening 40 years ago
in any event, a few minutes with sand paper and its easily corrected.
i use 4 different types of sandpaper - 100 grit, 220, then check the fit. once its close i finish up with 320 and 400. most good repair techs only charge a few $ for this.
unfortunately, in band halls every fall, we have to do this to about 1/2 of the new wood instruments that the new students show up with in the first week or 2 of school. funny how the music stores always say that they 'set up' the instruments, but they actually don't do more than remove the shrink wrap from the mouthpieces
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-05-29 13:03
Most new Selmers need this problem dealt with. Better than buying a clarinet with LOOSE joints..
"I'm just going to leave it as is for now and use plenty of cork grease every time I put it together and see if it breaks in."
Once the timber jams, it does not "break in" unless you move to a drier climate.
Cork grease helps a lot with cork, but not a lot with timber. Be careful. It may reach a point where you cannot take it apart. And it is always possible that while you are forcing it you could bend keys, or even break off the tenon joint.
BTW, for an inexperienced person to use sand paper, they are likely to sand away far too much timber at the edge at the very end of the tenon's '
shoulder', before they have sanded enough adjacent to the cork. Every technician must have seen these conical-shaped 'shoulders'. Not good.... They are well on the way to need rather expensive capping with metal.
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2008-05-29 16:07
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
> Most new Selmers need this problem dealt with. Better than
> buying a clarinet with LOOSE joints..
>
> "I'm just going to leave it as is for now and use plenty of
> cork grease every time I put it together and see if it breaks
> in."
>
> Once the timber jams, it does not "break in" unless you move to
> a drier climate.
>
> Cork grease helps a lot with cork, but not a lot with timber.
> Be careful. It may reach a point where you cannot take it
> apart. And it is always possible that while you are forcing
> it you could bend keys, or even break off the tenon joint.
>
> BTW, for an inexperienced person to use sand paper, they are
> likely to sand away far too much timber at the edge at the very
> end of the tenon's '
> shoulder', before they have sanded enough adjacent to the cork.
> Every technician must have seen these conical-shaped
> 'shoulders'. Not good.... They are well on the way to need
> rather expensive capping with metal.
It was a little better last night but I'm going to take it to the shop this weekend and see what they think.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-05-29 16:23
"It was a little better last night but I'm going to take it to the shop this weekend and see what they think."
Hooray! There's little point in asking for advice if you were then going to ignore it. If the repair tech is any good (and patient) then you and the clarinet will be much better off.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-06-09 11:44
My Selmer Paris did this when new. I took it in under guarantee and the guy took a bit of wood off the tenon. Did it again a couple of years later so I had a go myself with a needle file and a set of vernier calipers. This worked fine, but here's some things to note:
- The tenon might have become oval, and need different work at different points
- 50um (or two thousands of an inch) makes a difference, so take it easy
- If the wood swells and sticks during playing, a gentle application of bore oil can sometimes help.
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