 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-05-07 05:48
My vintage E-S Buffet plays horribly flat. The barrel that came with it (my guess is it's the original) is 64mm long which, from what I gather, is even on the small side for a Bb clarinet. I'm gussing I'll need one that's closer to 62mm or 63mm, but I haven't really seen much below 64mm.
I have seen some of the click/adjustable barrels that go from 61mm to 67mm. Are they actually decent barrels? Or more of a gimick? Anyone recomend any other manufacturers of smaller barrels (preferrably ones that don't cost an arm and a leg since my primary is the bass clarinet and I only play my Bb clarinet in the community theater's pit orchestra for 1 - 2 shows a year.)
-Chelle
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2008-05-07 10:50
See this discussion
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=272195&t=272195
in which I recounted my experience with a Click barrel on my E&S -- I returned it because it didn't fit.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2008-05-07 11:11
The topmost tenon is fairly easy to reduce in size.
That said, if you're already playing a 64mm long barrel, you may have other problems that a Clik! will not address.
It may be worth checking to see if the replacement barrel is the correct internal diameter - it should closely match the opening of the topmost tenon.
What mouthpiece are you using?
Is it a modern mouthpiece, with a smaller chamber?
Have you approached an instructor concerning this?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-05-07 11:48
You can get a Scott barrel in 60/62/63 mm which isn't very expensive. Check www.muncywinds.com for those.
Maybe the mouthpiece is the problem. I happen to have a clarinet here that with my regular mouthpiece plays at least 10 cents sharp for all notes and for many notes 20+ cents sharp, with tuning to 442. So I tried a lower pitch mouthpiece and the clarinet had ok intonation tuning to 440. So a mouthpiece can make a very big difference in tuning, and I think some instruments are more mouthpiece picky than others.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-05-07 13:38
Chelle,
I think there may be another problem as SB suggest above. As a long-time doubler (BC, all the saxes, and clarinet), I know that one embouchure will not work on all the single (or double) reeds. That's were I'd begin and also look at reed strength.
A 64mm barrel is pretty short to begin with so...
HRL
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-05-07 14:25
Complete agreement with Hank.
The pitch being so low with so short a barrel indicates (a least through a PC) that there is a fundamental issue to be resolved.
Why not spend the same money on a lesson or two with someone who can solve the root problem? The solution might benefit you in ways you haven't yet imagined.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-05-07 15:04
I would suggest someone else who is an experience clarinetist try the instrument to see what results s/he get. Be sure it is not your embouchure/set up.
One test of embouchure/voicing is to try to play the mouthpiece alone. You should find that the pitch you get is 2 octaves above middle C, concert pitch. If not, you may have other issues that you need to deal with first.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-05-07 15:30
I agree with the first half of the Ed, but the pitch that results from the mouthpiece alone can vary greatly while still achieving the desired end with the clarinet attached.
I am still perfecting my double-lip playing...which can be occasionally low pitch on some notes. But with the mouthpiece I'm almost a dead-on C#.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-05-07 16:49
Quote:
What mouthpiece are you using?
Is it a modern mouthpiece, with a smaller chamber?
I've tried both a JD Hite Premiere mouthpiece as well as an old wooden Buffet mouthpiece (I know nothing about it other than it came with an old albert clarinet that I bought and I like the sound of it better than the Hite).
Quote:
Have you approached an instructor concerning this?
I don't have an instructor. I've been out of school for a while and this is just a community group. I have talked with our bassoon player and one of the other clarinet players. They let me try an Acubore barrel. It was about 1 mm shorter than my barrel, but it didn't fit down all the way (made for shorter tenons, I guess) so the gap counteracted any less length it had and it still played flat (other than that, I kind of liked it, though).
Quote:
As a long-time doubler (BC, all the saxes, and clarinet), I know that one embouchure will not work on all the single (or double) reeds. That's were I'd begin and also look at reed strength.j
I've always doubled on BC and clarinet in pit orchestra and never had any problems when I was using my old Selmer CL300. This is the first show that I've added alto sax and also the first show that I've tried using the E-S. But it's been so frustrating that I've stopped playing the E-S and have been using my metal Conn. It could be embachure being messed up because I've added the sax, but my Conn plays in tune just fine (it has a little more leeway with the tunable barrel, though. And FWIW, I use the same wood mouthpiece as I do on the E-S - kind of mellows out the metal clarinet tone).
Quote:
I would suggest someone else who is an experience clarinetist try the instrument to see what results s/he get. Be sure it is not your embouchure/set up.
One test of embouchure/voicing is to try to play the mouthpiece alone. You should find that the pitch you get is 2 octaves above middle C, concert pitch. If not, you may have other issues that you need to deal with first.
Our last show is Friday, so I'll ask one of the other clarinet players to try it out.
-Chelle
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2008-05-07 16:52
I am mainly a bass clarinet player as well, playing soprano for the same reasons - only a few times a year in community productions. I also play terribly flat, and have decided I have a sloppy soprano embochure. In fact, I also have an E&S clarinet that I purchased from Sue Raycraft. It's a wonderful clarinet, and she sent me a Sumner 63.5 mm barrel that brought the pitch up perfectly.
In my quest for "the perfect clarinet" I ordered shorter barrels and tested more than a dozen mouthpieces on several clarinets, with varying results. Some clarinets played right on for most notes, but would play flat on only upper-register right hand notes - another was flat in all the upper register but right on in the lower register. I even tried a CLICK barrel, but it didn't work for me.
Long story longer: it's probably a combination of loose embochure and perhaps softer reeds? I know I prefer 2.5 to 3.25's and that contributes slightly to flatness, I am told. It could be a "flat" mouthpiece - I have a mouthpiece that sounds gorgeous, I love everything about it *except* that I play 20 cents flat with it. Switch to a different mouthpiece and see what happens.
I have 7 Backun barrels on trial right now in my continuing quest for perfection. It's a sickness...
Good luck!
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-05-07 17:02
Click barrels work...sound is OK. I believe the more expensive one has a locking feature. Perhaps during swabbing you might change the length inadvertently so the lock helps. Here is my suggestion. Even if you have other problems that cause this pitch issue it isn't going to hurt buying a click barrel. Some dealers would send you two or three barrels. Simply use the Click barrel to determine what length you need. That accomplished buy a Scott at that length or shorten an existing barrel. Shortening might be more expensive as the procedure is more that cutting the end off the barrel. Again once you have determined the length, the adjustable quality of the click barrel is redundant unless you play in a marching band in sub zero weather and also in the summer in Phoenix. Talk to suppliers they will no doubt help you out.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2008-05-09 19:32
I returned my click barrel because it didn't work. I wouldn't venture to try another click barrel.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-05-10 12:25
"Kemosabe, Kemosabe, the music is starting." IMO the actual term began with the Lone Ranger in the early 30's and not in ancient lore. The Lone Ranger was my introduction to classical music along with being a "straight shooter". I still wear my LR badge proudly. (You knew you could get a rise out of me, Hank)
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-06-08 03:00
If anyone is interested, I bought myself a tuner and checked the instrument against that and according to the tuner, it's fine. In pit orchestra, we were tuning to the keyboard so I bet the keyboard was a bit sharp (it probably has an adjustment, but he hasn't adjusted it yet - it's a fairly new keyboard for him).
-Chelle
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-06-08 04:07
I'm not fond of the clickers. I have a friend who bought one. I tried it, but didn't like it. They seem very cheesy and like they would have all sorts of gaps or misshapes in the bore. I would suggest a Robert Scott barrel as mentioed above. My R13 Bb plays very sharp so i ordered a 67 to replace my stock 66. The reverse taper bore helped out too. I'm no sure how it would solve flatness, I rarely here of flat horns, just sharp ones. I actually prefer the tone of my scott barrel to my stock Buffet barrel. I guess in this case price definatly doesn't determine quality. Scott barrels run somewher in the range of $60, cheaper than the $125 for a buffet barrel, or $200+ for others.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-06-08 13:57
I have not read the other responses to this particular subject, howevr I used click barrels and advocate them . If you play in a city in freezing old churches where the furnace is usually a candle (maybe) this little thing can save your life as it did mine many times, or more. The floor is even colder than your waist, so the bottom of the horn is flatter than flat and it is a nightmare unless you use a heater, (which I did ,much to my chagrin) or you have a barrel which you can shorten. Then , as it may warm, you click it back up. Terrific, forgetting of course the quality control in the manufacture .
Sherman Friedland
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