 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill Fogle
Date: 2000-09-05 14:15
I took the keys off a clarinet for the first time this weekend. For many people who post here, that's like saying "I took a walk." For me, it's a huge big deal. I've always wanted to be able to work on my own clarinets, but the ability has really eluded me. The first time I thought about trying it (a couple of years ago), the screws on the instrument were rusted/frozen, and the procedure was misery. I abandoned it. This time, I was lucky that all the screws came out easily and were in good condition (the clarinet is a mildewed old wooden '20s H. Bettoney Bb Boehm with wrap-around register key).
I took everything off, clean/oiled the wood (peanut oil), buffed the keys (being careful not to bend), and even "made" a replacement pad using Saran wrap around a damaged one. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about pads to even order what I would need, so I just tried to make due with the existing pads. My goals were (1) to clean the mold and mildew off the old boy, (2) to bring the clarinet to as close to playing condition as I could, and (3)--in lieu of goal #2--to do no damage.
The "main" problem with the instrument is that there was some kind of trauma to the bridge key and trill keys (why do people beat up their clarinets?), and the bridge key from
the top joint became detached from wherever it's supposed to attach and the side trill keys got bent up badly.
I got all the keys back on. Unfortunately, in the process I must have put one of the lower joint springs out of action (clarion C# pinky). Also, the lower joint long levers (B natural, etc.) clank around like bracelets now (there was no cork underneath them even before I got there).
The clarinet actually sort of "played" before (and as far as intrinsic tone and flexibility go, it played well, too--it's heavily undercut with a very small bore--it will be a sweet one when it is fully repaired), but I'm afraid I have a much cleaner and prettier instrument that is now totally silent until I can get it to the repair shop. The pad I made holds, and there are no obvious leaks, but, uh, it doesn't respond well to the mouthpiece/reed stimulation.
Over and out.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-09-05 15:41
Bill, please followup on this with us. very interesting for those who haven't taken one apart completely. I just started doing corks & there is an art to it. they say on taking apart to make a good diagram and to "index" the pieces as they come off. Glad you shared with us. mw
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-09-05 15:41
Bill, please followup on this with us. very interesting for those who haven't taken one apart completely. I just started doing corks & there is an art to it. they say on taking apart to make a good diagram and to "index" the pieces as they come off. Glad you shared with us. mw
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-09-05 15:41
Bill, please followup on this with us. very interesting for those who haven't taken one apart completely. I just started doing corks & there is an art to it. they say on taking apart to make a good diagram and to "index" the pieces as they come off. Glad you shared with us. mw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-09-05 15:44
Welcome to the throes of non-pro repairing, nearly all of us have gone thru it!! The prerequisites you gave are very good! My initial advice is to find a friendly and understanding repair-tech, who [with smiles each way] will finish your repair job and allow you to observe how he does it [take a lesson, that is]!! There are lots of tricks in this trade, I learn something new on every visit. Have fun learning, Don
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-09-05 18:59
Notice how many things Bill did right? I'm impressed! Taking a clarinet apart is one thing, but putting it back together is tougher. You must have kept good track of which screws went where, etc..
For those levers that clank "like bracelets," there's a special way to silence them besides restoring the bumper corks on the feet of the keys themselves. (Make sure the top of the crow's foot is corked, too. If all the corks on that group of 4 are the right thickness, the two top key touches will lay neatly and evenly on the crow's foot, with no "play" or air space between crow's foot and upper key touches, and nothing being forced up.) On the end of each of the two long levers where there's a metal prong sticking out that inserts into a hole on the key, pad that prong, so you won't get a metal-on-metal click, by wadding around it a tiny scrap of goldbeaters' fishskin, available from the same sources that sell pads, cork, etc., before you put the prong into the hole. (This fishskin is the same stuff that covers the pads -- I don't see why you couldn't use a tiny bit of plastic wrap from the kitchen temporarily if you don't have gen-u-wine fishskin or don't plan to restore enough clarinets to make it worthwhile to buy it. Real fishskin is so good because it's incredibly strong for its thinness.) With the thickness Ferree's sells (the smallest quantity looks like a lifetime supply), I cut a piece about 1/4" square and fold it over in half, then in half again, then wrap it on the prong, where it will stick to itself just enough to give me time to put the prong in the hole if I'm lucky. Use just enough fishskin to silence the click and take up excess "play" in the lever, but it shouldn't feel tight or stiff. Padding the levers is small but frustrating job that seems as though it ought to take about half a minute, but takes a lot longer, because the bit of fishskin always wants to fall off -- it is clearly conscious and doing this *on purpose*! -- just as I go to stick the prong in the hole. One method is to hold the fishskin against the hole and stuff it partway in with a toothpick first, but half the time it'll unwad itself and pop right back out before I can get the lever in position. Or else it'll stay put, but the prong will push it all the way *through* the hole and out the other side! I get the quickest results from wrapping the prong, though your mileage may vary. (Of course, there's always glue, but that's not kosher. I don't know why, but I've never seen glue on any of these bits when I take a clarinet apart.) The nice thing about this miserable little job is that there's just about no way to do any harm, though you may have to do it over and over and over to get it right. Save up a hefty cussword allowance for a few days first.... :-)
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-09-05 23:15
Bill Fogle wrote:
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... I got all the keys back on. Unfortunately, in the process I must have put one of the lower joint springs out of action (clarion C# pinky).
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There's a good chance that you didn't get the spring properly hooked on the little notch on one of the rods. I find a crochet hook very useful in this operation. A second possibility is that the spring got bent when you were putting it back together. I'd say check the springs being hooked into their notches first though as this is real easy to miss in getting the keys back on.
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Author: Bill Fogle
Date: 2000-09-05 23:58
I'm pretty sure I bent the spring. I bent it trying (successfully) to get it back into its nest in the key/rod. This area was the worst to work on, and I had to assemble and disassemble these particular keys several times because I did not pre-think which order they needed to go back in. All this during a migraine headache. I learned alot.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-09-06 00:43
As for those pin and sockets on the left pinkie keys, you might try some small heat shrink tubing found at your local auto parts store. If done right it will never wear out or fall off. I think Radio Shack has it in even smaller diameters. Also some clarinets don't use the pin and socket on those keys. They use a cam or foot method. I just use a THIN piece of cork there between the pieces to eliminate rattle. If tou visit your local tech, get there in the early morning when he does before he gets too heavily involved with the other horns. Bribe him/her with coffee. Let us know how it turns out.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-09-06 04:05
Leila, I think a lot of folks use Teflon as opposed to fishskin or cork for those bumpers. Cork takes an impression. Fishskin sounds ok, but is it as tough as the teflon. BTW: This problem is generally a dead giveaway for BUFFET. :>) PS This is supposed to be a secret.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-09-06 12:21
mark weinstein wrote:
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Leila, I think a lot of folks use Teflon as opposed to fishskin or cork for those bumpers. Cork takes an impression. Fishskin sounds ok, but is it as tough as the teflon. BTW: This problem is generally a dead giveaway for BUFFET. :>) PS This is supposed to be a secret.
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;-) Yup.... I'm sure you're right about modern materials being superior. When I restore an old clarinet, I like to put it back as close as I can get it to original condition. Admittedly, that's a little fussy, since things like corks and pads are disposable -- altering them doesn't permanently modify the instrument. Anyway, it's silly of me to worry about replacing stock equipment on "off" brands that nobody collects anyway! But I'm a traditionalist. BTW, I think the lapped lever mechanism (which I've got on my 1958 Conn Director) is vastly superior to the prong-and-hole arrangement for the LH pinkie key levers. It's certainly easier to work on. I used up the cussword allowance and then some, just last night, stuffing fishskin in the holes of the Lerue.
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-09-06 20:26
Lelia -
Have you tried wetting the fish skin in warm water? Works for me.
I save up the cusswords for those Conn Director set screws. Ugggh, you'd think I'd have learned something by now but - seems like almost every time I end up groveling on the floor with a flashlight... pesky little rascals.... well, you know the rest of the story :/
ron b.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-09-06 21:20
Yer so rite,Ron, those set screws are #$%^&*, if I lose a few, good riddance!!! Otherwise, a fair horn. I particularly enjoy restoring a golden oldie, French or US.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-09-07 14:16
Conn set screws, oh yeah... !@#$%^&*! For those who haven't have the pleasure, they're not much bigger than an apostrophe on most typewriters. If there's any place they can fall and get lost, preferably a dirty mottled-gray concrete floor where they disappear without a trace, they will head for it with demonic energy. (I keep a magnet, for sorting them out from the dust bunnies and debris on the workroom floor!) On old Conn saxes, those set screws do serve a useful function, because without them, the pivot screws on a big sax can "back out" of the holes from the vibration. I don't quite understand the rationale on clarinets, though.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-09-07 14:26
ron b. wrote:
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Lelia -
Have you tried wetting the fish skin in warm water? Works for me.
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That sounds like a great idea. My first thought was that water would promote rust, but I think the insides of those holes are non-ferrous, aren't they? They're not like the key posts with steel screws -- the lever holes and prongs are both part of the key lever itself, plated brass. So a little bit of dampness probably wouldn't hurt anything. Thanks for the suggestion!
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-09-07 17:14
Hi, Lelia -
The water might not need to be warm. But it impresses people (one way or another) :| who insist on watching you while you work.
Some techs also put a little dab of cork grease on the prong. On 'most' horns the prongs are the same non ferris material as the keys. However... I try to remind myself to be on the lookout for that one exception.
I understand the reasoning for set screws on big saxes, I guess, a logical solution where vibration *might* do some mischief. I've never seen problems with lost screws on saxes without set screws though. But, really, clarinets(?) yeh, and.... Hmmmm...
I've never actually lost a set screw forever but they're sure adept at hide-n-seek. I like your tip about using a magnet. Good suggestion - thanks.
Bill, I think you're doing just fine. Everyone who was ever interested in discovering the mysteries of woodwind mechanics, beyond which keys to press on, started somewhere. If you start out carefully, as you have, and keep track of all the little pieces as you go you shouldn't have any major problems. Most techs I know will readily admit (if they're being honest) to having made every mistake in the books and then some. Keep us posted how you're doing. We all learn from one another and sharing makes the world a happier place.
ron b.
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Author: Jim
Date: 2000-09-08 03:09
The real trick is doing emergency repairs on a moving school bus. In High school (light years ago) I was known as having the ability, and the tools (one screw driver) and was often passed sick clarinets to "fix." Amazing what can be done with rubber bands and pieces of napkin! I failed though the day I was handed a horn with a broken off tenon!
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