 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: William
Date: 2008-05-08 20:20
Just went through a box of 3,5s and found them all to be "tubby" in quality of sound and "thuddy" in response. They all seemed to lack any real heart and none played with any performance potential. This is a complete 180 from my usual experiance with Vandorans--two or three decent reeds with the rest having some playing possibilities with adjustment, etc. But this new box of V12 Flow-Packs doesnt seem to have any reeds that I can make use of. I currently have them drying on a glass surface and will re-try them in a few days, but as it stands right now, this is the absolute worst batch of Vandoran reeds that I have ever opened.
[rant complete--I'll report back later]
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-05-09 00:14
Im not to fond of the Flow Pack either. One its a pain in the butt to open all of them(since i generally try them all at one sitting), it makes a mess in my studio (i wish it were a real studio) and in the environment (despite the fact that they are made of a biodegradable plastic). For those reasons i use Zonda. Well actually I find Zondas to be more consistent and they work best with the mp i am currently using.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-05-14 20:41
Follow-up on my box of Vandoran Flow-Pack 3.5s. They have been laying out on glass to aclimate since May 8 and after re-playing them all today, my opinion has changed somewhat. They are still rather dull on my Chicago Kaspar # 14, but when I switched to my Ithica Bay, they all came to life. Further testing on my Gregory Smith Cicero mpc yelded similar results--5 out of the ten played quite well, 3 others "good" and the remaining 2, well you know the "rest of the story". Anyway, just wanted to report that the Flow Pack reeds have come around and I think most of my recent problems are with my Chicago Kaspar and not so much the reeds. Back to practice......
May15: Today, our orchestra gave three concerts for Beloit area fifth graders and use it as an opportunity to compare my set of Leblanc Concertos--Ridenour tweeked--against my older set of Buffet R13s, both sets with my Ithica Bay mpc. Conclusion: although the Leblancs are perfectly in tune and have absolutely even scales, my Buffets, while a bit harder to play in tune (especially the A), simply put out more sound and allowed me to play more expressivly within the ensemble. So.....it's back to the Buffet camp for me for at least the next orchestra season. And the reeds have come back to life as well. Clarinetting has suddenly become fun again.
Post Edited (2008-05-15 20:49)
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2008-05-16 15:14
I would have to agree with Ryder and William's 1st and 2nd post.
1. It is a pain to open the pack.
2. I also had a bad experience with the reeds the 1st time I played them but after some days of letting them dry they play quite well. I play them on 3 different vandoreen mouthpieces and the reeds were fine.
I have always play on vandoreen reeds so I am not sure I want to change reeds. But a friend of mine recently started playing Zonda reeds and they sounded quite good also.
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Author: Ryan K
Date: 2008-05-16 18:58
I'm playing V12 reeds, and I tend to get 5-6 playable ones out a box. I'm playing a Fobes Cicero 13, which is rather reed friendly. However, whenever one doesn't work, I usually just chalk it up to something I'm doing wrong and practice more.
Ryan Karr
Dickinson College
Carlisle, PA
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-05-16 19:16
I was forced to buy a 5-pack of VD Bass Clarinet Reeds (they had none other available), and I wasn't all that impressed.
I wonder why people make a fuss about them instead of buying something else. Heck, even the orange Ricos are better. (I must say that I thoroughly detest the Royals, though (the Ricos, not the Windsors).)
--
Ben
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Author: William
Date: 2008-05-16 20:30
I play a Legere 3.0 reed on my Grabner CXBS bass clarinet mouthpiece and am told by all how great my Prestige sounds. Haven't used a cane reed in five years.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-05-16 21:13
My students and I have given the Flow Pack (both V12 and regular) reeds a pretty fair trial and now come to the following conclusions:
Pros:
- after opening the box, individual packaging insures each reed being in a sanitary condition
- most reeds (I assume from being shrink wrapped) seem to play fairly well out of the box for the first few minutes
- grading / strength is consistant through out the entire box
Cons:
- excess packing creates twice the waste
- oversized boxes do not fit in the clarinet case and/or take up too much self space
- with the mylar shrink wrapping, individual inspection of reeds prior to playing can not be done
- quality of cane, while responsive to playing at first, has severe longevity issues
- reeds absorb moisture too quickly, thus leading to unfocused, tubby sound, and continued swelling of the cane
- even with careful break-in procedures the reeds do not come back to life at the same playing level as the previous day.
- we have found more than the usual amount of new reeds with chips or a slightly damaged tip. Not sure if the new packaging is to blame.
Conclusion - at this time there are more negatives than positives to this new generation of Vandoren reeds.
BTW - We have found the best results by NOT letting the reeds completely dry between playing sessions. Reeds that initially played well, continued to do so by either leaving the reed on the mouthpiece (with a cap) overnight, or keeping the reed damp/humidified in a sealed case such as a Reed Mate.
...GBK
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-05-16 22:56
GBK- thanks for posting your and your students findings. What reeds would you recommend as an alternative?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-05-16 23:29
I think that the current state of reeds is not great. In almost all brands we are seeing a greater number of miscuts and poor quality blanks than ever before.
When not using some of my older Morre reeds, I am currently using either Vandoren Blue Box (because I like the rounded tip better than the flatter V12 tip profile), or Gonzalez Regular Cut reeds.
Unfortunately, even Gonzalez, who once boasted (and rightly so) that one could find 8 concert quality reeds per box have also seen their cane take a nose dive. Whether it is due to increased demand and a less than adequate aged stock of quality cane to meet pending orders, the corporate influence (cost cutting?) of Conn-Selmer or just the reality of a few less than stellar cane harvests, something has changed. We have definitely noticed that their strength is different with reeds now playing 1/4 to 1/2 strength harder than before.
Love them or hate them, Vandoren reeds still lead the pack - probably because (like golf) people tend to remember only the great ones rather than all the poor ones along the journey...
A number of my colleagues have reported good results with Zonda reeds (which wouldn't make much sense because the cane is basically from the same area as Gonzalez), but I haven't recently tried them.
I am a big advocate of aging your recently purchased reeds, so today's boxes of Vandorens are being saved for opening in 12 - 18 months.
...GBK
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2008-05-17 00:08
I have had better success with the flow package by taking all the reeds out of the flow packs, and letting them sit for a week or two before trying to play them. After doing that, they seemed to be exactly like the older box stuff. Still same story though, 1 or 2 good players at most.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-05-17 00:43
I have had good luck with Rico Grand Concert Thick Blank reeds. I have found them to be pretty consistent and have a nice resonant tone. I think they are worth a try. Of course, as with most things, your set up may yield different results.
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-05-17 22:23
I attended a studio class with Dan Gilbert's studio a few months back (a very close friend that is in his studio at Michigan) and he said that the main thing he's found with the flow-pack Vandorens is they are much more inconsistant in cut than they were when they weren't individually wrapped. He always knew the general rules for vandoren reeds, like Traditional 3's were usually heavy low on the left, and V12 4.5's were usually heavy about halfway down on the right (made up examples..I don't remember exactly what his were), so he could generally say "Oh this reed probably doesn't work because it's heavy here" and would be right fairly often. He said that since they started wrapping them individually those patterns have completely gone out the window. He thinks there's probably some sort of machining change as well.
I don't like them as much as I used to...I went and found a few old boxes of V12 4's (what I use on my M15) and they were much easier and nicer to play all through their lifespan than the new V12 4's...though one could chalk it up to age I suppose, as these weren't previously broken in and aged an extra 2 or so years since I purchased them.
Post Edited (2008-05-17 22:28)
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2008-05-18 19:02
I wish they would bring back the plastic purple boxes of the '70's
Tiny sized and no waste.
Steve
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-05-18 21:02
Steve B says
"I wish they would bring back the plastic purple boxes of the '70's
Tiny sized and no waste."
Amen!!!! I love these.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-18 23:55
The "cut" of Vandorens are just fine. They are symetricaland very consistent. The issue is the cane. Like Rod Rubber, I take the reeds out of the packaging and let them sit. This brings them a little closer to the pre-flow pack version.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-05-19 08:29
"The "cut" of Vandorens are just fine."
I got a couple boxes 2 months ago and there is a huge difference in the cut. The vamp on one reed is 2mm SHORTER than the vamp on another. The vamp length is different on most of the reeds in those boxes. Here is the interesting part. The kind of cane is very varied in color, flavor, smell, thickness and hardness. BUT all these reeds play at a similar hardness. The sound is not great. I believe that Vandoren has started using different cane quality/type and this cut variance is a way to compensate for it.
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Author: Eddydavik
Date: 2008-05-19 08:52
Haven't used Vandorans since high school I think. Since college at least I've been using the Rico GMS Thick Blanks (The red box) and have loved them. Very rarely (I think maybe twice) do I find an unusable reed in any box I have purchased. Reeds are very consistent in terms of sound quality (and it's a good quality too I think).
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-05-19 13:51
Like Rod_Rubber and J.J,
I take the reeds out of the flow packaging and let them sit. I also still soak them for a few minutes, rub the vamp and back end with my finger to smooth out any sharp fibers, and let the dry before trying them. I ordered 2 boxes of v12 4's a few weeks ago and the first 5 of the first box were all winners. 2 concert reeds and 3 good quality practice reeds (one of which could be used in a chamber concert). 4 were heavy just below the tip on the right side and one was heavy just below the tip on the left. They seem pretty normal to me.
Haven't tried the second box yet. Maybe the taste people are talking about has always been there, it's just sealed in with the flow packaging now instead of airing out during shipment. Soak them and let them dry on a stone or something flat and they will seem more normal.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2008-05-21 21:23
I'm going to be switching brands this summer because I can't stand Vandoren any more... what has happened to their quality control? It seems to have gone out the window to make way for new "innovations".
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-05-22 13:31
I've recently been trying the Rico Reserve reeds. Every reed out of the box is perfectly balenced and they play very well. The cane is dense and the sound and response they produce is outstanding. At first try, I was skeptical of the sound but after recording myself from 20 feet away, the sound has a beautiful ring and depth just like a good Vandoren V12. It took about 4 days to break them in but now they are superb and I did absolutely nothing to them in terms of adjustment besdies polishing the back a bit.
I would give them a try if you haven't already.
*Update*
As I play these reeds more and more, the sound gets a little thin in the louder dynamics. These reeds might not cut it for me in an orchestra. They seem to lack the power V12's provide. They are great small ensemble reeds though.
Post Edited (2008-05-22 15:39)
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