 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fantasmacantos
Date: 2008-04-29 23:49
For those who can read spanish I just published an article about the two children on youtube (Louis, 6, Han Kim, 11) on Clariperu. The link is
http://clariperu.blogspot.com/2008/04/si-hablamos-de-grandes-solistas-del.html
Regards,
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Author: lj
Date: 2008-04-30 01:11
Interesting and well-written article--thanks. I wondered when reading it (and looking at the videos) whether cultural differences and/or age might contribute to the perception that one is having more fun than the other. Any thoughts?
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-04-30 03:04
I look forward to reading it. The more I watch Kim, the more I realize that he's actually musically light-years ahead of all but a handful of the best clarinetists in this country.
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Author: fantasmacantos
Date: 2008-04-30 14:58
Not the age, but maybe the cultural difference contribute to my perception.
Any idea that someone can give us of what do you thing on teaching children? I remember a week or some ago someone ask for the youngest you would teach.
Ivan
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-04-30 17:04
Too often we view a player through the most obvious visual clues that influence the rest of our perception. For that reason, it's the easiest thing in the world to say, "wow, he's great for his age!" There are some minor issues with control that he will improve at soon, but if you were to listen to him blindly, most of the performances online would grab your ear instantly. That is something that can't be said about most prominent players in this country. There are chances and musical freedoms that that go far beyond the stodgy clarinet community's typical renditions.
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Author: 53engine
Date: 2008-04-30 17:59
David,
Where is Han Kim not a pro. I thought that his playing was tremendous. His control, timing and tone were great. I also thought that his stage presence was amazing. He seemed to combine the proper amount of concentration with the freedom feeling of the Carnival of Venice. If you saw him and then one of the "pros" that swoon all over the stage as though they were flapping their wings, who wouldn't choose him over the flapper. I love Sabine Meyer's playing, but she's a swooner, at least on youtube. It's actually almost comical. I notice that Emma Johnson does the same thing.
I have a question and you pretty much know either the answers of where to get them. I was in Salzburg about 10 years ago and, coincidentally at the Mozarteum that evening was a performance of the clarinet concerto with string chamber orchestra. The guy that played was excellent but he covered the holes with the second joints of his fingers. I was sitting right in front, couldn't have been more than 10 feet away and I kept double taking at this, but sure enough, he was playing with his middle joint rather than the tips. Then a couple of weeks ago, I saw the same thing on youtube. Perhaps it was the same guy. He was an excellent player, but what is this technique? Is it perculiar to him or to a certain school. I'd never seen it before.
By the way, he seriously danced his way through the piece. I bet he practiced the dance as much as the actual clarineting. Very distracting.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-30 18:48
I hear Kim's playing as still stiff. When I listen age is not a factor, but he could and will be more musical.
The Kovacs piece shouldn't be played like a technical etude. I do enjoy his playing, and have played it for several students.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WZyeF8NrOok is how I feel that it should be played.
btw, I've taught high level prodigy's who at 5 years of playing were that good (kim has played 5 years now). However, none were that young (started typically at 11)
He is crazy good for that age. Great for even a Sophomore at an upper Conservatory.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-30 18:52
"but he covered the holes with the second joints of his fingers"
-------------------------
Maybe he was a former bagpipe player?
strange, really strange .........
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Author: fantasmacantos
Date: 2008-04-30 19:38
I do prefer the Martínez-Forteza (the most relevant Spanish clarinetist in the world) video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=irs0ikpIV98
I absolutly thing that the Kovacs' piece is not a simple technical etude, it has a world of musical elements plus the technical difficult, I would consider it as a concert etude.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-05-01 01:10
Yeah, Han Kim's stage deportment is admirable...unusual for a Korean, some of them seem to think they're on "Dancing With the Stars" his teacher must have him well in hand (for now). Even Sarah Chang is starting to cut up a bit lately.
Sabine Meyer's nutty gyrations are will known...but I was disapponted lately to discover a video with Emma Johnson almost break dancing. These latter types are starting to make Jackie Du Pre look restrained.
But of course Jackie was a historically great musican and we could excuse a lot for that.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-05-01 01:15
Old Geezer wrote:
> Yeah, Han Kim's stage deportment is admirable...unusual for a
> Korean,
You didn't REALLY write that ... Asian / Korean / whatever has NOTHING to do with whatever you're talking about ...
Thank goodness.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-05-01 01:30
"lately to discover a video with Emma Johnson almost break dancing."
wait what? I want to see that video
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: brycon
Date: 2008-05-01 03:20
Old Geezer, you should watch a video of the great Keith Jarrett playing piano.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-01 04:08
Perhaps, Old Geezer, the problem is not so much with their movements on stage but with your inexplicable aversion to it. Time and again you've commented on players with this caveat. At the end of the day, most of the greats move quite a bit and you're in no position to judge based on this odd preference.
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Author: 53engine
Date: 2008-05-01 18:38
I would welcome some discussion about this topic of moving while playing. An occasional sopntaneous gesture while playing or slight bow or something like that is fine but what's with this business of gyrating with the music. I have watched some youtube performances of clarinetists that I really enjoyed listening to and found their flapping, swooning and gyrating really distracting and in bad taste. I believe that these movements are not spontaneous but are practiced as part of the performance, for some reason.
I disagree that most of the greats move quite a bit. Does Larry Combs, Greg Smith, Stanley Drucker, Richard Stoltzman, Karl Leister, move. Did Louis Cahuzac, Daniel Bonade, Simeon Bellison move other than an occasional gesture to emplasize the music. This seems to be particularly prevalent with the current group of top flight women players. I won't mention any names, but these are such fine players and they look quite silly flapping and swooning around.
I would like to have a "weigh in" by some of the really experienced players that read this board, those that put out large numbers of students who will play professionally.
There is one youtube video where a truly excellent female player, who is quite attractive and shapely and is wearing a rather low cut gown, swoons so much that is is laughable because you can see these shoulders and upper arms jerking around.
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Author: lj
Date: 2008-05-01 18:55
> This seems to be particularly prevalent with the
> current group of top flight women players. I won't mention any
> names, but these are such fine players and they look quite
> silly flapping and swooning around...
> There is one youtube video where a truly excellent female
> player, who is quite attractive and shapely and is wearing a
> rather low cut gown, swoons so much that is is laughable
> because you can see these shoulders and upper arms jerking
> around.
I can concede the difference in preference with respect to movement. I get a strong impression from many threads that there is a (possibly) unfounded veneration many board members express for everyone who has played and/or conducted in the "good old days," when players were better than anyone currently playing will ever be (and they probably had to walk barefoot in the snow to get to their lessons, uphill in both directions). Certainly, many current performers in many genres, including *gasp* classical music, have begun to incorporate performance elements that would not have been considered a generation (or less) ago. Everyone is certainly entitled to hold an opinion about what is tasteful.
The race and gender comments, however, are not merely distasteful but offensive. Can you imagine reading a comment that there is a "truly excellent male player, who is quite attractive and well-built and is wearing rather tight-fitting pants...." Is this relevant to the quality of the musical performance?
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Author: 53engine
Date: 2008-05-01 19:58
no 1j, it isn't relevant and she is certainly a top player, but it is silly. This is not a clarinet performance with dance incorporated in it so that the player is doing a choregraphed dance on the stage while playing. This is the affectation of over-swooning and over-flapping for expressive purposes.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-05-01 21:11
Political corrrectness is a form of smugness and quite distastful to us cultured and educated folks.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: lj
Date: 2008-05-01 21:58
Sorry if I stepped on your toes, Geezer; I happen to think it's extremely important to recognize that language frames thought and perception. Your application of the pejorative term “politically correct” to any acknowledgment of cultural or gender bias is a lazy rhetorical tool, but have at it. We obviously have different points of view on numerous issues. I, for instance, would characterize your reference to yourself as one of "us cultured and educated folks" as incredibly smug.
I stand by my comments. I won't engage in a debate. You are entitled to your perspective, as am I. I apologize for inadvertently diverting the course of this thread.
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