 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alpharettablue
Date: 2008-04-26 17:59
My kid is a very good high school clarinetist. She takes private lessons and she plays in the wind ensemble, her high school orchestra, the pit orchestra and marching band. She works very hard at music and intends to continue in college.
She has an r13 Bb and an r13 A.
She would like to get an eb, since her wind ensemble usually has one Eb clarinet and she would like to be that person since the current eb is graduating.
What do you guys think? Fortunately the stock market has been kind to her college fund and we can afford a new r13 eb. Is this overkill? She wants to take it with her this summer to a six week music program, so I need to act quickly.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-04-26 18:31
Most high school band departments have an Eb clarinet (or two) in their inventory. Unless "top quality" is an issue, I would advise waiting until college, or beyond, to buy an effer.
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2008-04-26 19:41
Just my personal experiece, but having gotten Eb under control in high school really opened up doors for me in college. I've never played an R13 Eb, but many other brands. My favorites are Yamaha (661/881) and Patricola. Older Bundys play surprisingly well in tune. There is an Amati that has a georgous tone, but the keys feel a bit awkward. So, IMHO, I say get the Eb the earlier the better. When I taught privately, it always seemed like the kids who picked up Eb ended up stronger on Bb also. The only downside is that if she is friends with any flute players, that relationship will be doomed.
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Author: woody
Date: 2008-04-26 23:10
If you are going to buy an Eb and can afford a Buffett then Buy it.
It is the best instrument (IMHO) and if in the future it doesn't work out for your daughter then the resale value will be not far off the purchase price.
The R13 Eb will be slightly familiar as she already plays on R13's (Bb & A)
A good Eb player will have an extremely good ear and will be a challenge to an already accomplished clarinettist, this can only better you as a muscian.
I think it's a no-brainer as you will get your money back should you decide to sell so go for it.
B
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-04-26 23:36
If you want to get her a toy and you can afford it, OK... but the truth is that only a small percentage of music written for wind ensemble calls for an Eb clarinet and the percentage is even smaller for orchestral music. The odds are that, in the long run, it probably won't get a lot of play. I agree with William that, if her school already owns an Eb, it would make good sense for her to use that one for the time being.
In order of band/wind ensemble use, I think the ranking in terms of demand is:
Bb
Bass
Alto (but the parts are usually terribly boring)
Eb
Contras
In order of orchestra use:
Bb
A
Bass
C (though it is usually an easy transposition on Bb)
Eb
If your daughter really likes playing in pit orchestras and thinks this is something she would like to do after high school, you might consider an alto or tenor saxophone or a flute (or maybe an oboe) and some lessons on that. She sounds like she's far enough along to begin to learn a double.
As far as utility clarinets are concerned, in the long run, she'll probably have more use for a bass clarinet than an Eb but just about any school with a music program will have at least a student model loaner (and some have good professional models) so there's no real need to buy a student model while she's in school and professional models are very expensive unless you get lucky on eBay.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2008-04-26 23:52
I don't agree with the idea that "only a small percentage of music written for wind ensemble calls for an Eb clarinet" I have played Eb in wind ensemble for the last 2 years, and I play it on more than half of the pieces we do. Also, there have been times when Ive been admitted to a wind ensemble specifically because I can play Eb. Unfortunately, I don't own one, but I have been lucky enough to be able to borrow. One of my students ended up having to buy one, and he's a sophomore in high school.
So, long story short: If you can afford it and feel like she's going to stick with it, go ahead and buy one. Good luck to you and your daughter.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-04-27 00:05
Used and very lightly used Eb clarinets start showing up on the well known auction sites and classifieds from May through August for precisely the reasons Jack Kissinger outlined above.
More than one clarinetist has sold their Eb clarinet to make next year's college tuition...GBK
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-04-27 01:31
Hi,
I had a Penzel Mueller Artist Eb that was a terrific instrument. It was very old instrument but after a re-pad, played great. The intonation was wonderful and I ended up with only about $400. But my hands, although slender, are no match for an eefer; I was a failure on it. I sold the little .... on the auction site and have never looked back.
On the Bundy Eb, it's a nice and very in-expensive instrument. Good intonation and just about bullet-proof (hence many schools own them).
One thing that really helped was a had a Selmer Soloist C** MP with a Harrison ligature. It was a nice combo.
HRL
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-04-27 05:32
Usage of the eb comes down to this
YMMV
good point about listing the role of usage from a professional standpoint.
Bb
Bass
Alto (but the parts are usually terribly boring)
Eb
Contras
In order of orchestra use:
Bb
A
Bass
C (though it is usually an easy transposition on Bb)
Eb
Is convincing enough to tell some students not to make the leap and to invest in something important: their tuition for next year. =X speaking of which....
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-04-27 13:10
I would say that if she has a special interest in the e-flat clarinet, if she finds the challenge interesting and you can afford a good professional level instrument, then go for it. Her dedication for the instrument as such sounds promising since most people don’t have the guts to even try to invest the time and energy it takes to master the e-flat clarinet on a high level but play it anyway but badly. It is not an instrument that you would put in the hands of a mediocre clarinet player as happens frequently, but an instrument that requires special training under good leadership. As someone who has gotten a good guidance from an early age she can become very attractive for jobs for advanced e-flat clarinet repertoire in the future given that her dedication remains strong. When you get Shostakovich’s 5th, 6th or 7th symphony or Strauss’s “Till Eulenspiegel” in your hands for the first time you can feel lucky if you have done your homework beforehand.
If you would like to save some money, the Buffet student model E11 is per definition a pro instrument, but an R-13 or an RC Prestige has mostly a better 2nd hand value.
Don’t forget to buy the book: “Orchestral Studies for the E-flat Clarinet” by Peter Hadcock.
Alphie
Clarinet/E-flat clarinet RSPO
Post Edited (2008-04-27 13:25)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-04-27 14:52
You must know something about the stock market that the rest of don’t know; maybe you can share your recent successes. Now, as far as an Eb clarinet goes. My opinion is that it can’t hurt having your daughter own and play an Eb clarinet if it’s affordable. The difficult part is finding one reasonably in tune. I suggest you have a pro help her pick one out otherwise you may both regret it for some time to come. I encourage my students to learn Eb and bass clarinet in college and if affordable, to own those instruments. I did that when I was in college, by my third year I owned them all. The challenge was to practice them all and learn the excerpts without shorting my clarinet practice so my lessons were always well prepared. I was a committed student and simply put in the necessary hours. If your daughter wants to pursue music as a profession it’s a good start. If she just wants to do it as a hobby, go for it, it could be fun. One thing she needs to remember, you play the Eb clarinet with your ears. Good luck, ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-04-27 15:52
>E11 is per definition a pro instrument
i disagree - an e11 is a student instrument, a good student intsrument, sure, but it is not a professional model.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-04-27 16:43
>i disagree - an e11 is a student instrument, a good student intsrument, sure, but it is not a professional model.<
I take it back. I can't really define a pro instrument objectively. From what I know however from my own experience and from others is that it’s just as “easy” to find a good E11 e-flat clarinet as it is to find a good R13 or an RC Prestige, at least as far as intonation, response and tone quality is concerned. It’s only made out of slightly cheaper material, not extra first class wood and only nickel plated, that’s why it is a student model. Otherwise it’s the same instrument. I think the E11 has an RC design with a normal bell, but I’m not sure. Anyway, it is a very good e-flat clarinet for a reasonable price. On a pro level and if I wasn’t so vain I could just as well use one myself.
Alphie
Post Edited (2008-04-27 16:51)
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Author: dgclarinet
Date: 2008-04-27 16:58
I'm with Ed...forget the Eb clarinet...you need to be selling your stock market strategies if you're doing well right now.
And if after making a million selling your market strategies, your daughter still wants an Eb clarinet in high school...I'd tell her to wait. Use the school's horn. The school certainly would let her practice it over the summer..if not, the band director needs help too. If they don't have one, they should. I learned Eb in college on the school horn..then played in the Army on an Army Eb. I now own two Eb's that I bought on Ebay..both excellent horns, but bought at a time in my life that I understood what money was.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2008-04-27 17:29
If she'd do it, I'd recommend the bass clarinet rather than the eefer. But then I understand how it is with being young and pursuing the instruments you love.
Truth be known, we have; Eb, C, Bb, A sopranos, alto, bass, and contrabass clarinets. And I suspect I don't play half as good as your daughter. It might be interesting to talk to her teachers and private instructors too. But that's also a dice roll.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-04-27 18:53
I'm going to go against a large number of folks here. I recommend that you get her either the Eb she wants, or a nice used one for a lower price.
My daughter is playing eefer on a loaner from a local musician. We don't have tons of cash to spend on clarinets, so she got my "golden age" Bb R13 a few years back as a Christmas gift, and she saved up the 50% we asked her to contribute so that she could get a very nice, new R13 A this year, with us kicking in the rest. She is still playing the loaner Eb, and doing quite nicely on it. She originally got it to play in the local Youth Symphony, but the adult concert band the two of us play in also has her as out Eb player. In the upcoming convert next week, almost every piece has a part for Eb soprano. We are thinking about purchasing it from the owner, as he has said that he is just glad that someone is getting good use out of it, and he is trying to figure out a reasonable price.
I don't know if it's 100% accurate, but her teacher (a well-respected symphony player) recommends she stay away from harmony clarinets, as she really has the chops for the soprano clarinets. He says that most musicians do really well on either Eb or bass, but not both, due to significant differences in embouchure and playing styles. Of course, he also plays Eb (with the other soprano parts) in the orchestra, so he may be a tad biased. Still, I am not willing to argue with success; she sounds great on Eb, Bb and A.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-04-27 22:27
I enjoy playing eefer, -- it's fun, it's a challenge, and it helps build up one's Bb soprano clarinet chops. Occasionally it's called for in the band, orchestra, or clarinet ensemble repertoire and it's nice to have one available. I've been lucky to find an older 'off-brand' instrument which plays better in tune and with a more pleasant (less strident) sound than most of the wood Buffets I've tried or heard. And it is a hard-rubber instrument that cost me less than $100 to buy, receiving my standard overhaul afterwards. I don't play it much but am really glad to have it.
A plastic Bundy is not a bad place to start, but a really good mouthpiece (e.g. Greg Smith, Clark Fobes) is an absolute necessity on the Eb clarinet.
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Author: Jkelly32562
Date: 2008-04-28 00:27
I would say go for it!!! The eariler she starts, the better she will be.
And about all of this "the school should own one" I am familiar with the Fulton County school system, and MOST of Alpharetta has money, but usually, unless the band director is a clarinet player, school owned instruments are generally not in the best condition.
If you have the money and she WANTS to practice get it for her. If she later decides she doesn't want it, I am sure you could sell it on here.
Jonathan Kelly
jkelly32562@troy.edu
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Author: alpharettablue
Date: 2008-04-28 01:02
Thanks to everyone for your replies. This is the most helpful and courteous group I've ever encountered on the internet.
I am going to talk to her clarinet teacher. I appreciate that there are a number of issues and options.
I have always purchased instruments for her when she shows a genuine interest. The first clarinet I bought for her was a student Buffet when she was 8. At the time, everyone said I should just rent. But I believe that the commitment that I make to her music helps her understand the importance I place on music. I have continued to invest as her skill and interest expanded. She continues to repay me with hard work and dedication.
I am still inclined to buy her a new instrument, since she is really excited about expanding her skills and her band uses the Eb quite a bit. The biggest reason to go for an Eb instead of a flute or sax is that SHE is really excited about the Eb.
Thanks again.
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Author: Upper left tip
Date: 2008-04-28 23:19
It seems to me that you have a handle on whether to purchase an Eb or not.
I would recommend the Buffet E11. Buffet spent quite a bit of time on this instrument series and came up with something that has a high quality to price ratio. It's a very well made instrument manufactured in Germany and it should not crack under normal use. And the price-$1750 is great. When I tried it I have to say that I was surprised at how good it was. There's a covered tightness to it but that is probably perfect for someone new to the instrument.
If you go upwards, the R13 and RC Prestige (which I play) will have more character, be more vocal in quality as well as have more depth of sound. My only concern is that these instruments should be broken-in slowly and carefully-not to mention that the price makes it much more of an investment ($3500-5200).
As important is the mouthpiece and reeds that you choose- I'd recommend the Vandoren B40 or B44 with their leather ligature.
IMHO the E11 would serve your daughter well through college and auditions.
ULT
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-04-29 12:06
OK I've played an Eb since 1965 and it has been the best thing that ever happened to me! Well maybe not the best, but it has been such fun. it has gotten me into all sorts of groups, both professional and not, because they needed one who could play it well and in tune. I actually have a harder time playing Bb than Eb because the notes with the same fingerings sound "wrong". Playing Eb is sort of like playing piccolo in that YOU WILL BE HEARD so you need to play very well in tune or else you are no asset to your group.
However, in regard to the other clarinets, I think a bass is a very good investment and perhaps also more gigs (in fact I have a bass big this weekend) are in the offing as you often see it even in shows and there are more orchestral solos. I also play oboe and English horn so I think the thing with embouchure may be overstated. Look at the contrast in those embouchures! It does take a bit of adjustment but I've done lots of gigs on BOTH Eb and bass.
Eb's are much cheaper than basses in general, which might be a consideration too. I've played LeBlancs, Selmers and Buffets and the Buffets to me is the best although a lot of people swear by the Selmer.
Hope that's some help.
Eefer guy
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Author: winstondawg
Date: 2008-05-06 17:08
I've owned/played both an E11 and an R13. There's no comparison (other than price) - go for an R13. I can play altissimo on the R13 with hardly any effort!!
jc
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