 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2008-04-24 20:37
I recently acquired a used professional Selmer bass clarinet. After changing out the pads and making most of the necessary adjustments, one nagging problem remains:
The F#/C# key bounces. As a result, whenever I play a descending chromatic scale, there is a delay before either C or low F sound. This is simply unacceptable to me. So far it has been through the hands of two repairmen. Neither could correct the problem. The last repairman claims it's a manufacturing defect, that the key is simply too heavy and there is a resulting torque problem, which makes the pad bounce on the tone hole. I've played plenty of Selmers in the past, and I never had this problem before, so if there is some sort of defect, it is with this instrument solely.
Both repairmen did plenty of work adjusting spring tension. With the last one, neither light tension and heavy tension worked, it played best (but not particularly well) with medium tension.
Does anyone here have an idea what the problem is with this bass?
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-04-24 20:46
That is most certainly unacceptable. I wonder how experienced these repairmen are with bass clarinets... Even if it is a manufacturing defect, the issue should be resolvable. You might check with the local symphony player (I think that's Richard Nunemaker if you are in fact out of Houston) on who he uses.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2008-04-24 20:55
Well, so far I've gone to two repairmen.
The first one is an advertiser on this site. The second was Nunemaker's repairman. Neither had a clue as to how to fix the problem.
That's why I decided to throw this problem to the woodwind.org folks. I know there are some big time posters and lurkers here, so maybe some of them have experience with this particular dilemma.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-24 21:38
Maybe the F#/C# spring gauge is on the light side and it could benefit from a thicker and stiffer spring rather than putting a greater bend in it to make it stronger.
Check the linkage end of the LH F#/C# lever to be sure there's a tiny amount of play between the pin and the hole in the connecting arm it fits into (so it will operate at the limit without binding), and apply a drop of thick oil the pin (assuming it is pinned). And also have a slight bit of end play between the point screws of the F#/C# key itself - not too much or none at all, but enough so the key operates freely without feeling loose.
Selmer basses use sax pads on the large pad cups, so maybe a softer (squishier) pad may absorb more energy reducing the risk of bouncing when the pad is left to close under it's own spring tension.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-04-24 22:13
There's bad news and not much good news, sorry. I had one of those Selmer bass clarinets and I tried everything I could think of and then some (thicker spring, softer pads, different tension on that spring) but the best I ever got was a small bounce to that key. All of the suggestions you got so far are good ideas but the problem seems to be the size and weight of the key plus the fulcrum point, not the spring tension. I did try to limit the weight of the key by grinding some of it away and that was the only thing that actually helped a little.
I'm very sorry to say that 40 years of repair experience failed, I never did get that key to work with zero bounce. I now have another bass. I will wish you the best of luck, if you can find someone that does fix it PLEASE post the repair suggestion here.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-24 22:46
I thought the actual weight of the key and how it naturally balances would be the main culprit - my Buffet bass has a slight bounce on the same key, and lightening the weight will mean thinning the metal in places which will only serve to weaken the key if metal is removed from the wrong area. I wonder if drilling a line of holes along the LH F#/C# lever may help to reduce weight, though retain some strength - but it will look odd to say the least.
It's not only bass clarinets that have key bounce (though that's not to say it's acceptable) - saxes get it on the RH main action and alto and bass flutes get it on the LH3 key and G# key.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2008-04-25 00:08
Thanks for all the advice so far! I'm still open to more suggestions if anyone has any.
I came up with a so-so solution to my dilemma. Since the opinion of repairman #2 and some people here is that the weight of the key is part of the problem, I decided to put more tension on the pad directly. So I did what I've done since I was a beginner and a spring broke - I wrapped a rubber band around the offending pad. Fortunately this is a pad which is closed in its neutral position.
I took a fairly small rubber band and double wrapped it - it was snug on the pad, but there was way too much tension. Then I took one of the two loops off of the pad, and that was just about right. The key is heavier, but not ridiculously so, and there is no more bounce. The bottom pad of the F/C key is almost directly across from the F#/C# key, so I had to put the loops a bit lower on the wood. Also, I have some concern that the rubber band may cause some problems with E/B, since the loops are wrapped around the metal rods.
Still, this is the best solution so far - I can now play chromatic passages cleanly, with no delays. I may buy a variety pack of rubber band and try to find the one that offers the least tension without a bounce, just to tweak things a bit further. Besides, rubber bands occasionally break, so I'll need backups at my disposal.
Post Edited (2008-04-25 00:09)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-04-25 05:23
Do you know what is this model and approx when it was made? Since sbrodt54 is familiar with the problem maybe this was a problem they fixed later even on the same model?
It's very hard to say without seeing the instrument and understanding what causes the problem, but maybe changing the spring (thickness) and maybe also the place of the spring (the cradle)? Maybe add another spring somewhere, mayeb a flat spring. This could make the key feel a bit more resistant but probably a much better compromise.
How is the bounce when the left side F#/C# lever isn't connected? BTW is it connected with a pin in a hole?
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Author: Lann
Date: 2008-04-25 05:38
Heck yes on the rubber band fix. That was going to be my suggestion. It's not incredibly chic, by any means, but has worked for me in the past.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-25 10:13
I was going to suggest sticking a large coin to the F#/C# pad cup with Blu-Tack (in the UK a pound coin will be heavy enough), though the largest coins you have in the US are quarters, so you could stick several of these together and then stick the stack of coins to the pad cup to balance the key.
And if possible, balance the LH F#/C# lever in a similar manner if possible, or with a blob of Blu-Tack.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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