 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jacob S
Date: 2008-04-20 03:57
Hello, I am new to this board! I'm sorry if this is not the place to introduce myself, but I would like you to all understand why I might have problems following rules (about creating topics and such). I am in 10th grade, and I've played for the last 5 years. Right now I play on an E-11 with the original barrel, a Gennusa Star (I know there is another name for it, but I'm not sure), and 3 1/2 Vandoren reeds. I use thin mouthpiece pads rather than thick ones both because the thickness is uncomfortable for me to play on, and my teeth tear through the thicker pads like no other...
Whenever I play, I roll my lip in far too much. This leads to my lower lip having red marks where the reed make contact, as if the darker part of my lip is extended. This leads to my articulation being a tad bit different than other players, because my tongue never actually makes contact with the reed. My articulation is one thing I'd like input on if at all possible, because I've come to realize that my tongue hits the top of my lip (which is basically at a 90 degree angle into my mouth because it's rolled in so far), which then hits the reed. This isn't my main problem, because I get decent tone nonetheless, but I just want to put it out there in case it's contributing to my embrochure problems.
Recently, I've decided to take clarinet a bit more seriously, and I want to fix any technical problems I can now, so that I can play to the best of my ability. Due to my lip being rolled in, I've been accustomed to playing on a small part of the mouthpiece. Before, my private lessons teacher has put a small piece of electrical tape on the top of my mouthpiece, where my teeth should be, and where I can play with the most mouthpiece but no chirping. Yesterday I did the same, so that I can guide my teeth into a creating a more "correct" or "open" embrochure, but my mouth becomes fatigued after 3 minutes of playing...
I'm sorry that this is such a long winded explanation, but I want to make sure everything in my predicament can be accounted for. Should I try working with what I have now, an embrochure which allows me to have good tone but not to my full potential, or keep trying to take in more mouthpiece? If I should continue pursuing a more "normal" embrochure, then how would I go about doing so while being able to practice technique? I've already checked 9 pages on "embrochure" in the search option, but all I've come up with is to play in front of a mirror, no more than 15 minutes a day, working on my embrochure. I would do this, but at the same time I need to practice wind ensemble/audition materials, which were difficult to focus on at the same time as the mouthpiece I take in.
Any suggestions? Thanks for your help!
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-04-20 04:24
Use the method your teacher showed you (the one that makes you fatigued after 3 minutes) and use a softer reed. Don't roll your lip in so far. At most, you should roll in just enough so that your lower lip is invisable- no further.
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Author: Jacob S
Date: 2008-04-20 04:32
One thing I didn't mention is that using softer reeds pretty much destroys my tone, or makes higher passages impossible for me to play. Should I just get a few softer reeds to practice using more mouthpiece, but play like I am now when I need to practice other things? Your explanation of how much to roll in my lip is helping me visualize it a lot better, so thank you very much for that as well :D
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Author: D
Date: 2008-04-20 07:45
I would think that you are only going to have the strength in your mouth to support a 3.5 reed properly when your embouchure is a bit more sorted. Using a softer reed with your incorrect embouchure is also going to sound horrid and prevent you getting higher notes as well because you will not be supporting it correctly, and probably squeezing it too tight or touching too much of it etc. I think you are absolutely right in trying to sort this out now. There is a limit to how much further you would get without sorting yourself, and now is a much better time than at college.
If your teeth are cutting through soft pads I would suggest that you are gripping too hard with your teeth. While you are sorting this out then try going back to soft pads for a while. If you start seeing marks on them you know you are biting too hard from the top. The strength and grip has to come from your lips not your teeth. I use thick pads because my front teeth are crumbling and therefore quite sensitive to vibration. They are also therefore quite rough in places and would cut right through if I was biting. I think I have used about two or three thick pads in about three years. They get discarded when they get a bit grim, not because they have been cut through.
It could be that your teeth are at an odd angle which is contributing to your problems and you will need to think of something else to get round the issue. It could be the angle at which you hold the clarinet. It could be the shape of the mouthpiece doesn't agree with your teeth.
I know it is difficult to do this while you are needing to learn new music. Try learning the new stuff just moving your fingers. The best practice is slow practice anyway, so this will give you a good head start for a few weeks while you try and build up the correct muscles. It is good that you are getting fatigued, it shows that you are using muscles to form your embouchure and not relying on teeth pressure. Keep working with your private teacher- but only if you really think they are a good teacher. It might be that you need someone really really specialist to get this sorted out.
good luck
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-20 11:49
You are in 10th grade, not a Senior taking College Auditions. The most important thing you can be doing is to get your embouchure and tonguing fixed. As the time is passed for summer music festival auditions (yes?) and Regional Band now would be the time to get it worked out.
Forget everything else (and I mean everything) and focus on that. If your teacher isn't a high end specialist (possibly is?) then try taking a few lessons with one who is. That can make a world of difference.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: srattle
Date: 2008-04-20 12:57
Here's my advice, although talk to a teacher about this seriously, and figure out exactly what you need to do.
I had this same problem, and switching is very frustrating, because you will sound 'bad' and have very little control for a while. Here's my suggestion.
Instead of trying to switch your embouchure position completely, think about more rolling your lip out a little. As though you start from the position you have now, and then try to give someone a kiss on the cheek. Just a little at first, and slowly try to bring it out more.
The next thing that helped me, is thinking about the lower lip more as a cushion to the reed, rather than a flat surface. Try to make your lower lip softer when you have the mouthpiece in your mouth. Try it, you'll know why that helps.
Lastly, when you play, try to 'move' mentally towards the mouthpiece. Part of the big problem with rolling in your lip, is that it forces your mouth to go away and outwards from the mouthpiece, and kind of pinches it. If you think about pushing your lips towards the mouthpiece, you'll find that they roll out a little, and you'll have more control.
It helps to think about this as you breath, before playing, breath with your lips moving towards the mouthpiece.
This will all feel very weird and wrong to start, but all of the strange things will become more subtle, and finally end up feeling completely normal after a little bit.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2008-04-20 15:27
Something for you to try, which has helped me to correct my embouchure
problems, is to try playing double lip. This will prevent you from biting, which it sounds like you are doing, and may help you to place your bottom lip on the mouthpiece in the right place.
It will probably feel really wierd for a while since your current emouchure is so different, but if you are serious about clarinet, you definitely need to correct your problems now, even if your playing suffers temporarily.
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Author: Jacob S
Date: 2008-04-20 17:17
I just realized that I've been typing "embrochure" instead of "embouchure" this whole time. Also, that I've been neglecting my double lip long tones. Before I thought they were useless and gradually forgot them, but as I am trying to play double lip they have:
1. Forced my lip to roll out
2. Prevented me from biting as much
3. Make me take in more mouthpiece because there is a ton of leakage from the sides if I play otherwise
I'm resting the bell on my knee for now, because otherwise the clarinet shakes like mad...
Now I'm realizing that changing my embouchure is letting my articulation problems shine, so I'll do some research and come back later for help...
Thank you everyone for your help!
EDIT: My tone WILL get better as I become used to all of these changes... right? I just want to make sure that me sounding bad like this isn't going to be permanent!
Post Edited (2008-04-20 17:32)
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Author: D
Date: 2008-04-20 19:31
nah, you'll always sound rubbish....... We are just trying to make sure there is no competition for us! sabotage,........totally the way forward.
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-04-21 03:06
I agree with the double lip approach - Work it out and I think you will be impressed with your results.
Here is an article Carmine Campione of the Cincinatti Conservatory of Music wrote about embouchure:
http://www.clarinet-saxophone.asn.au/downloadabledocs/The%20Clarinet%20Embouchure.pdf
And here is the great interview with Robert Marcellus, which contains valuable information about everything =).
http://www.clarinet-saxophone.asn.au/downloadabledocs/Interview%20with%20Robert%20Marcellus.pdf
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