 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-04-15 21:56
I know I hav`nt been playing the clarinet long (about 6 months) but I find it so hard going from say a E or A to B and a C over the break. I`m playing the B with left pinkie and C with right. I know this is supposed to be relatively hard but 50% of the time I get nothing or a bad sqeak at any speed other than dead slow.
They say practice and practice, but I must play this sequence over and over again maybe 50 times during the day and a dozen or more just before I turn in.
Yes I know I sound like a dumbie but I do play the cello,violin and 3 saxes with little trouble. Most of the difficulty seems to be with the 3rd. finger hole. I was thinking of a little tiny risen dot of something just beyond the hole to assist in rapid accurate positioning.
And yes I do have a teacher, and I`ll never give up, but it doesn`t hurt to ask advice from other clarinetists who have been thru` this.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-04-15 22:23
I assume you mean the throat A or E? Try it in parts. For example, throat E to mid B-
Play E and slur to low E then push the register key. And the other way- Play E and slur to high B by pushing the register key, then slur to mid B.
also, try doing the work one hand at a time. E to high G plus LH pinky and then add the RH to go to B.
For throat A- work on slurring throat A down to throat E and E to A. This is a big problem area for everyone, I think. I sometimes practice the thumb and index finger work for almost an entire practice session.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-04-15 22:57
I have an exercise which deals with nothing but throat tones and transitions to and from Ab, A, and Bb. And when I worked from it, it got better. I feel pretty good if something like that comes up in music. I'd just practice it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-04-15 23:12
For going over the break, keep in mind that the upper note uses a LOT more of the physical tube than the lower note. Push the air through, past the pinky.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-04-16 01:13
Guys bear with me, but what are you calling the "throat" keys?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-04-16 01:16
Approach the break from the top. That is, play third-line B and then slur down to second-space A.
Make as little finger motion as possible. Leave your right hand fingers down, and also your left little, ring and middle fingers.
Raise your thumb as little as possible. Don't roll your left index finger up. Instead, just lift it a little and nudge the A key. Don't worry about intonation right now, since you're working on something different.
Once you can do a smooth transition from B to A, reverse the process. "Un-nudge" the A key while closing the left index finger hole and thumb hole/register key.
You should be able to learn this two-finger movement fairly easily. When you can go back and forth several times smoothly, start raising the left middle finger too -- as little as possible -- and turning the movement of the three fingers into a single movement involving the fingers moving as a single unit.
Come back in a few days and tell us how you're doing.
Ken Shaw
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-04-16 06:21
The throat is usually thought of as being between E and Bb on the bottom of the treble staff.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-04-16 15:21
Going over the break in a well-set up sax is easy. The key work does the hole sealing for you.
On the clarinet, you have to get used to covering the open tone holes with the fleshy parts of your fingertips. Stand in front of a mirror and inspect the arch and tip placement.
Put your right hand down, using your right pinky for both the long B and C fingerings, get your right hand all set. Then, put down the missing fingers on your left hand.
Support the air column from your gut!
Let us know how you're doing.
Bob Phillips
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Author: tetiana
Date: 2008-04-16 18:57
Dear Ronish:
It took me a long time too to learn this. Ken gives excellent advice. I would also check (1) that your clarinet doesn't have an air leak as this may cause a delay in the throat tones "speaking" (2) that you are pressing down hard enough and fully covering the hole. The pinkie especially, but also the ring fingers (at least mine) are notoriously weak and feeble compared to the others and when playing these notes, you have to make sure you are applying enough pressure. The thumb also has to be firmly in place.
tetiana
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2008-04-16 22:26
I don't think there's anything else to say except keep working at it. But it sounds to me like you're spending too much time on it! I think if you practice it 50 times a day, you reach a point of diminishing returns where you're actually regressing instead of progressing.
What happens when you practice something too much is that you get frustrated, you lose your focus, and you start emphasizing the quantity of your practice instead of the quality. And you end up practicing mistakes--and getting good at them.
I'd say try it nice and slow maybe 10 times a day and then move on to something else.
Give it time. I remember learning clarinet, and how frustrating it was (and this after playing sax for 5 years). I thought I'd never learn it well. But I did--it just took time, quality practice, and a little patience.
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Author: diz
Date: 2008-04-17 05:03
I'm with Jaysne on this...don't over do it.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-04-17 09:30
Well thank you all for your contributions. I`ve been working along the lines suggested but it is probably too early yet. An interesting point about practicing too much. I`ll say one thing that`s happening is that my fingers get tired and then I make mistakes from over practicing.
But I notice this important aspect of clarinet playing. If I set up my fingers correctly sealing all holes and playing a nice tone and then partially uncover a hole until I get a rough or no note, and then with my fingers unmoved take a bit more of the MPC in and increase the blowing pressure the note will sound in many cases. Now this might be obvious to many of you but was not to me and never mentioned by my teacher. This is not suggesting sloppy fingering but it does ensure that a lot of what I was`nt getting before, I am now with more air pressure on the Clarion notes. (thanks Alex)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-04-17 14:28
The "exercises of mechanism" from Klose's clarinet method are good to practice for learning to cross the break.
One general rule for crossing the break smoothly is to put a little bit more air into the lower note so you can sort of "push off" to the upper note.
In general, the throat tones require less air pressure to play than the notes further down the tube of the instrument because the resistance of the instrument changes when you put your fingers down. For that reason, you have to give the throat tones a little more "oomph" when you cross the break so that the change in resistance doesn't interfere with the reed vibration (causing squeaks or other problems).
You'll get it--it just takes practice. Everybody has trouble with this at first. In fact, this quirk of the clarinet is so well known, even non-clarinettists are aware of it. The composer Samuel Adler (in his orchestration textbook) wrote, "Since this finger transition presents problems to all but the most expert player, it is advisable that the composer or orchestrator be aware of it. The same phenomenon occurs in the other winds, but with less devastating effects, because all the other winds overblow at the octave, while the clarinet overblows at the twelfth. The problem of coordinating the break completely disappears as the performer becomes more experienced, so that in the end, it presents no difficulties whatsoever."
So there you go . . . :-)
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Author: timg
Date: 2008-04-17 14:29
Ronish,
I have been playing for only slightly longer than you, so the difficulties of crossing the break are still fresh in my memory. And I make no apology for referring to a "break" between the registers: apart from the physics of the instrument, playing a throat-A *feels* different to playing a low-clarion-B.
In going from throat E or A to clarion B or C there are a lot of movements which need to be executed very precisely, and it takes time before these movements become fast, easy and instinctive. I found it useful to practice easier transitions, like chalumeau-G to clarion-D and back again. This sorted out the embouchure and air support. Once that became easy I added some fingering changes (like clarion-C to chalumeau-C) and worked up to the most awkward note transitions (like throat-A to clarion-B).
If a note doesn't come out, try to identify the mistake. For example you can't always tell by feel alone if the fingers are sealing a hole properly.
And as others have said, don't over-practice. I was (and still am) mad keen on learning to play an instrument, but the odd day off doesn't do any harm at all. After a break you'll pick up the clarinet in a slightly different way, which often works out better.
Tim
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2008-04-18 16:57
To put this into perspective--I play all the band instruments to one degree or another, and I think that of all the most difficult things there is to do on any of them, being able to negotiate the clarinet break gracefully is probably the hardest.
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Author: orchestr
Date: 2008-04-18 18:46
A couple quick things to add. The "nothing or a bad squeak" has got to be from a finger not covering the hole (assuming the rest of the clarinet plays well). Did someone already suggest practicing in front of a mirror? When you go to the long B or C, it's easy to see when a hole isn't completely covered. Also, many beginners in pushing the register key lift the bottom of the thumb to do so, and uncover the thumb hole partially. The thumb should pointing up and to the right about 45 degrees, and barely pivot to hit the lower right corner of the register key.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-04-18 19:27
seriously, the issue isn't so much practicing as it is what i think it is: pad balance on the lower joint isn't sealing correctly. A proper sealing B and C key is vital for making the transition easy as those two pads have to come down at the Same time and seal properly at the same time, which is a reason why some players struggle with those notes.
the solution is relatively simple. What you need to is this:
hold the left hand B key down so that it barely depresses. get a piece of thin paper, wax paper works well, and find out which pad depresses first as this will indicate that you have to press HARDER to get the second pad to seal. once you find this out, you have the option of lowering the pad that is sealing too early by using a lighter and holding the pad at an angle and heating the pad cup an inch away from the flame.
or option number 2 is raising the pad that isn't sealing at the same time. in which case, you use a lighter to expand the glue inside the cup so that the pad is pushed out, ergo the pad closes the gap of the first sealing pad.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-04-19 08:53
No fellows it`s not leaking pads I`ve just had them all checked, the problem as "orchestr" says is incorrect finger placement so that a "nothing or sqeek" results. Sure it is easy to get the B and C above the break if I go real slow but any signicant increase in speed gives trouble. I raised this post because on relatively easy, early clarinet music like stuff you play in the first few months has some songs where you are supposed to play a quaver A to the Clarion B. above it. (sheesh!). I take encouragement from what Jaysne says in that "being able to negotiate the break gracefully is probably the hardest". One other point, and this comes down to tone, but there is a significant change in tone when I go to the B or C above the mid A. Nice tones in the lower section but the early notes in the Clarion sound like I`m playing in a barrel. Do others notice this in their playing?
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-04-19 09:08
there is a change in tone.
A good long-tone style exercise is to play the notes in the low register, get the sound stable, and then press the register key and slur to the clarion. Work on it slowly to get the transition smooth.
After a while of this, you can raise the LH index finger and slur to the altissimo. Eg. Low A- Clarion E- alt. C#
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-04-19 21:14
OK what what are you suggesting , that the aim is to try to make the clarion notes sound the same (in tone) as the lower ones?
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-04-20 07:17
That's what my clarinet teacher taught me. nail the passage with just the fingerings and blowing air into the mouthpiece without making a sound. then when your ready, work on the passage slowly with a metronome. if you can't make the passage work for you, you can always opt out a note (if it's a fast passage) and move onward.
Sometimes you can't always have perfection, though don't keep your head too buried on certain passages as to miss out on the whole idea of the piece.
I agree with skygardner's comments about depressing the register key as the lower register should speak as easily as the upper register without changing much of your embrochure, moreso your air flow.
just my 2 cents.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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The Clarinet Pages
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