 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-04-15 15:02
the Eb/Bb 1 and 1 fingering.
I had a problem with this awhile back on my Lyrique Clarinet. My teacher did something to the bridge which helped it some, but also did something to the F and F#.
I just got a brand new Lyrique for my backup clarinet, and I have the same exact problem. I dont want to tell my teacher for fear she will bend/break or in someway do "something" to this clarinet too. If something happens, I prefer it was my own doing rather than hers.
But I'm not sure what to do. I have turned the joints left and right, pulled out, pushed in, bent the bridge slightly but nothing is working. I might not have bent enough out of fear I would break something, or bent the wrong way. Please help.
thanks
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-15 15:28
It's really best left for a tech to sort out (unless you're perfectly capable of doing this kind of thing yourself), and it's usualy done by holding the top joint with the rings held down and gently bending the link in towards the body.
Then both joints are assembled and the long Bb is checked with a feeler gauge as is the lower joint ring key pad to see if they're both balanced correctly. If it's bent too much, the lower joint rings will be held open - if not enough, the long Bb won't work as the LH2 ring key pad isn't closing.
Though if in doubt, see a tech to be sure you don't bend anything you're not supposed to, and do more harm trying to out it right.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-04-15 15:29)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-04-15 18:03
Actually there are some other ways to approach this. I tend to do a similar bend, but I use needle nose pliers (with a cloth in between the pliers and key to prevent gauging) to bend the extended part of the linkage up (or down....depending on what is needed).
Here's the test. Hold the clarinet up to the light so you are looking at the articulation of this linkage side on, light behind. If you see space between the linkagesa as you hold the "1 and 1" down, you need to bend down. The reverse problem now that I am describing this process would really be that the pad at the top of the bottom joint would not be coming down to seal (and or the rings of the right hand would be too high). In that case, you bend up, or bend the rings up slightly.
I think you can see were the complications can arise if you are not careful.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-04-15 18:36
Janlynn, You shouldn’t try bending the keys to fix this. It’s usually a simple matter of the bridge key not being coordinated properly. There’s usually a small gap between the lower and upper bridge keys. I always fix that for my students by simply placing a small piece of masking tape on the lower bridge key to make the upper one close all the way. Sometimes it takes two pieces; sometimes I use a piece of scotch tape if the masking tape is a bit to thick. If you’ve already bent the key you should probably take it to a repairman and get it straightened. Don’t leave until it works properly. By the way, to much tape will prevent the first pad in the right hand from covering so never over do it, it creates more problems then it fixes. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-04-16 02:04
Dear Mr. Palanker,
Are you saying that you DON'T bend keys? Though there are many instances where natural wear and tear of corks, felt, pads, call for suitable replacement or other such repair, I find a gentle "nudging" of the keys an easy fix in MANY circumstances. Heights of keys, heights of rings and the nagging hair trigger adjustment of the "1 and 1" Bb are instances where judicious bending can be a positive boon.
I wouldn't recommend someone just start bending things like crazy, but it should be in the arsenal.
Of course the pot metal keys of the cheap Boosey and Hawkes clarinets of years past gave a really bad rep to the idea.....the keys would just snap in two.
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-04-16 02:55
as it turns out i tried the masking tape becuz it seemed the easiest thing to do. and it fixed the problem.
thank you
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-16 15:23
My first pro buffet R-13 had a warble for the 1-1 fingering.
It was the tonehole which was the cause of it. Got rid of the instrument back in 1991 so don't remember what it was, I think it was that the tonehole was crooked, absolutely was not the key nor pad at all. Really had to center the sound on that note to keep it from getting away.
Glad that for you it was just a simple adjustment
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-04-17 00:23
Paul, I wouldn't say that I would never bend a key. If one got bent out of shape for some reason and I had to bend it back in order to play, of course I would. I just don't think that should be the first thing one does, especially when a piece of tape, where a cork has slightly worn, will take care of the problem, as was the case here. Students bending keys can easily cause many more problems than it can fix. It should be a last resort, not a first choice. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-04-17 14:11
Sometimes on new instruments these days they make the bridge key "corks" out of some kind of foam instead of real cork. I recently bought an R-13 (in key of A) with this issue. The foam doesn't quite hold its shape like real cork. My repair guy replaced the foam with real cork and adjusted the size until I got the sound I wanted (my problem was a unusually stuffy chalameau D--not the 1+1--but the bridge key was the culprit because the venting wasn't quite right) I don't know what they use in the Lyrique.
By the way, there are actually two corks on the bridge key--one that goes between the two pieces (the one that has a habit of getting worn down) and the cork that goes between the key and wood of the clarinet. In my case, replacing the cork that touches the wood solved my stuffiness problem.
You might want to have a (good) technician look at your bridge key corks (both of them) to see if they may need some adjustment. If your keys really do need bending, it's better to let the technician do it, because when they do it, they heat up the key they want to bend so that they don't put undue stress on the instrument in the bending process. (It also makes their adjustments more precise). Some technicians charge very little (or even nothing at all at some music stores around here) for this kind of routine adjustment.
Hey! I just thought of something. You bought a new Lyrique, right? It should be under warranty. Why don't you just call or e-mail Tom Ridenour (tom@ridenourclarinetproducts.com or 972-207-6336) and see what he says to do. I'd certainly check with him before doing any kind of modifications to your instrument that might void your warranty.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-17 14:57
"If your keys really do need bending, it's better to let the technician do it, because when they do it, they heat up the key they want to bend so that they don't put undue stress on the instrument in the bending process."
That's a common misconception - all keys will bend easily when cold as they've already been heated sufficiently during soldering or casting, so require no further heating to soften the metal.
And heating won't do anything to the metal apart from making it too hot to hold. To heat the key up to soften the metal will mean heating it up until it's glowing red, by which time the plating would have gone along with the soldered joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-04-17 15:05
Chris,
......and the cork and the pads!!!
I recently helped a tech re-solder bass clarinet key and literally saw the existing cork burst into flames in front of me (it wasn't on the clarinet of course).
Ed,
I definitely agree with you. My home repair jerry-rigging began when I was quite young and desperately wanted to hide the fact that I just smashed my new $4000 clarinet with a basketball..........lota bending and praying went on then.
................Paul Aviles
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