 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2008-03-25 13:41
Attachment: DollarEuroChart.png (23k)
Friends,
I used to be an advanced amateur of clarinet who played every day. After changing careers so I can more sufficiently finance a retirement of European music making, I found myself only playing clarinet on weekends. As a result my embouchure has become weak so that my former set-up is way too resistant for me.
Listed in order of preference:
Viotto Mouthpiece - White Master, Strength 3.5
Vandoren M13 - Vandoren V12, Strength 4
Ralph Morgan RM6 - Vandoren V13, Strength 3
I stopped playing the Viotto, my favorite mouthpiece/reed combination, because I feel this will be the set-up I use when I retire at the age of 59.5 so I don't want to waste reeds by being a "weekend warrior" D. Blumb'g, and I want to have nicely aged reeds for the future.
So I've been playing the Morgan mouthpiece with Vandoren V12, 3 reeds. But since I had very few boxes of those I ran out. So I now have been using strength 4 and sanding them down significantly. So much in fact that the Vandoren label completely vanishes.
I don't want to buy weaker reeds because the weak dollar, (the "American Peso" as the Brits refer to it now) makes them so expensive. (See chart)
When I invested heavily in reed buying in the late 1990's to 2000 the dollar was stronger. I recall a box of reeds averaged about $13, rather than about $22 today. Also the 4 strength reeds were for my resistant set-up, rather than the less resistant set-up.
So I'm loath to spend over $2 for each piece of vegetable matter that I will need for my my less resistant setup. Also all this sanding eats up a lot of time for someone who can only play on the weekends. Because my flute requires so little effort and maintenance, I've forgotten the effort needed to break in and balance reeds.
So what do you think about the ethics of taking a finely aged Vandoren V12 #4 reed and sanding it down so significantly? It feels akin to eating filet mignon well done.
Thanks,
Bartmann
Post Edited (2008-03-25 14:04)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-03-25 14:13
Perhaps you should "invest" in a Legere reed.
Have you considered a retirement career in politics? A professorship in ethics? Or, establishing a black market in reed smuggling??
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-03-25 15:20
If it sounds and feels good, its good.
You are saving reeds for future use and that can be good, but 2000 year Vandoren reeds aren't anything special so you are eating ribeye well done.
If they were from the 70's then I would say to save em.
There is however the value of time in working a reed which may be just too hard to use and the tone, response change created from sanding it so much.
Maybe just buy a few boxes?
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-03-25 15:35
If you have the patience for it, sand your reeds. The small amount of sawdust won't add significantly to the world's pollution.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2008-03-25 16:20
Follow the advice given above. As a lawyer and former ethics adviser, I see no ethics issue as you are not (1) ending the life of a plant OR (2) holding sanded reeds out to the public as reeds in their original form OR (3) selling sanded down #4 reeds as original Vandoren or Rico or Whatchamacallit #4 brand reeds. You may as well spend time calculating how many angels can dance or do pushups on the head of a pin.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-03-25 16:20
Cripes, they're just reeds, not rare ancient artifacts! Do whatever you need to do to make them play for you.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-03-25 16:36
BRAVO, DAVID S.
Reminds me of what William Stubbins (legendary University of Michigan Professor of clarinet) often screamed at his students, "PLAY THE REED, DON'T LET THE REED PLAY YOU".
My theory is that the better you are as a clarinetist, the better your reeds will play for you--or seem to because you have better technical control with which to overcome their inconsistancies.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-03-25 19:10
<<<OR (2) holding sanded reeds out to the public as reeds in their original form OR (3)>>>>>
OTOH, they have now been "expertly modified," and, like an AMG conversion on a Mercedes Benz, are worth infinitely more. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Of course, Scalia and Kennedy and Ginsburg et al may hold different views when it gets to the Supremes
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2008-03-25 19:12)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-03-25 19:16
Willaim said:
> My theory is that the better you are as a clarinetist,
> the better your reeds will play for you--or seem to
> because you have better technical control with which
> to overcome their inconsistancies.
A very wise observation.
The stronger and more "trained" your embouchure is, the more likely you can make small compensations for reeds which are not 100% to your liking.
However - the old rule still applies: If a reed is a dud, toss it and move on.
...GBK
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2008-03-25 22:21
If the reed is a dud, toss it and move on. Also, as my teacher used to say, "you can't ruin a reed that doesn't work". Do whatever you need to do to make it play for you.
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Author: RLSchwebel
Date: 2008-03-26 02:20
Dang Guys~
Invest in the money and buy Ridneour's Universal ATG Single Reed Finishing System. His entire approach is common sense and easy. You can turn the worst of the worst into an workable reed in minutes and a good reed into a fantastic reed even quicker. It practically takes an act of congress to get me to practice at home anymore... I'm sure as heck not wasting my time on finding reeds. Pull out a new reed, balance it w/ his cushioned sanding block and go! Works everytime and takes the fustration out of the process! My only unfair advantage... I own my own hardware stores and have sand paper by the reams! Yes there are definite times the reed is not worth the effort. At that point, I sacrifice the "artifact" to the clarinet Gods, splurge and pull out a new one. It's effortless to keep five very good reeds in rotation at all times...frankly, a nice problem to have.
robt.
Prinicipal, Corpus Christi Wind Symphony, Chamber Orchestra
Vandoren 4
Fobes CF+
& whatever the coolest Ligature of the month is...
~robt
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Author: Bill G
Date: 2008-03-26 02:47
As a lawyer, I say sand down those #4's and play them (as I suspect some of the members of this board do) and then brag about the strength reed you play. That's not lying!
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Author: ned
Date: 2008-03-26 22:12
''brag about the strength reed you play''
Why would anyone want to do this?
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2008-03-26 22:23
Why not get your buddy who uses V#4 to buy the boxes of #3s, then switch boxes with you? Someone else would probably be grateful to have the aged #4 reeds because they were using #3s back then when you bought your #4s.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-03-26 22:37
> ''brag about the strength reed you play''
> Why would anyone want to do this?
Same as in "my car is faster than yours" or "my pills are bluer than yours" and so on.
With all these reed tuning systems and methods out there - is there someone else on this planet who just grabs the next reed, fastens it, clamps on and resumes playing?
Who in here irons their newspaper before reading it?
--
Ben
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Author: ned
Date: 2008-03-26 22:43
''Same as in "my car is faster than yours"'' - I suspect that 20 yo petrolheads may take this attitude, but not mature clarinet players.
''Who in here irons their newspaper before reading it?''
I do actually....as it come rolled up in a plastic wrapped tube shape....it's unreadable otherwise. I can't see what this has to do with ''boasting'' about reed strength though?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-03-26 22:56
> I can't see what this has to do with ''boasting'' about reed strength though?
Uh, sorry, I was wrapping two unrelated things into one post, silly me.
The first half was answering the question, the second commented on the "reed finishing" thing per se.
--
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-03-27 02:14
A reed that's not bottom-wise sanded,
is liable to warp and act weird.
So sanding or scraping the bottom
will help stem the warpage you feared.
You don't need Joe's Tool or Sam's Gadget
to do simple things to the cane!
A knife or some reed rush will work fine
and not drive your wallet insane.
So practice on old grungy Ricos
until you become quite adept
and you will sound better and therefore
not "Squeaker" or "Honk" be yclept.
Just start with a quarter-strength higher
than what you play at curtain time,
thus leaving some cane for the scraping
to make all your reeds play sublime.
Now where's GBK when we need him?
To write a superior poem!
So we can forget all these tangents
and bring this tired topic back home......
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Author: CPW
Date: 2008-03-27 02:48
The topic was ethics
Reeds notwithstanding
Or was it of morals?
Arundo donax to be a-sanding
If they are for sale
as new minty blaetter
ethics would matter
"Falsely offered"
lawyers would a chatter
But as "newly improved"
They'd be ethically forward
Whether they'd be better
that's a whole nother matter
So sand the reed
and reap as ye sow
Any improvement
is worth more than dough.
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
Post Edited (2008-03-27 02:49)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-03-27 03:39
Reeds can be so darn demanding.
Filing and clipping and sanding.
Many now agree
Buy the ATG
And gain a new understanding.
You own a file, a clipper and a knife?
How much time does it steal from your life?
To get retribution
A simple solution?
Sell the horn and go buy a fife.
...GBK
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2008-03-27 19:46
Bartmann wrote:
"I found myself only playing clarinet on weekends. As a result my embouchure has become weak so that my former set-up is way too resistant for me."
In order to maintain proper embouchure strength and maintain high technical playing expertise, the clarinet needs to be practiced daily. I believe it was Benny Goodman who said: "If I miss a day of practice, I notice it. If I miss two days of practice, the audience notices it." (Correct me if I'm wrong!)
"So what do you think about the ethics of taking a finely aged Vandoren V12 #4 reed and sanding it down so significantly?" It's perfectly ethical. I've read other posts by players who purposely buy reeds that are too stiff so that they can sand them down to their specifications.
I agree with David Blumberg that 8 yr old reeds are not vintage.
"It feels akin to eating filet mignon well done."
This appears to be the heart of your entire query. Although playing the clarinet can be difficult, it should at least be enjoyable. It appears that your reed preparation process is taking all of the enjoyment out of playing.
And since you "loath to spend over $2 for each piece of vegetable matter that I will need for my my less resistant setup", I believe Allan Segal has a viable solution. Invest in a Legere reed and with playing only on weekends, it might last you an entire year!
Just my opinions.
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