 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bluesaxgirl
Date: 2008-03-24 19:17
And to the clarinet also! I have just turned 15, and I play alto and bari sax, and piano.
I come from the Sax on the Web forum (my info there is: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/member.php?u=22225)
I am truly interested in playing the clarinet to become a more diverse musician. I don't know the rules around here, but I don't see a search feature, so I'll ask my questions.
In your opinion, what is the best beginning clarinet? (I would like something of good, sturdy quality.) Does wood or plastic really matter at this stage?
What is the most important thing when you are learning clarinet?
I'm really scared of confusing sax and clarinet fingerings and was wondering if it deplete my sax musicianship in any way. If anyone doubles sax, I would kindly appreciate your input.
Thanks in advance. I hope to get to know some of you around here,
bluesaxgirl
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Author: Cass Tech
Date: 2008-03-24 19:39
Welcome bluesaxgirl!:
The most important thing(s) are probably the same as those on the sax, namely (Must reading - Interview with Robert Marcellus and The Art of Slurring by Daniel Bonade):
1. diaphragmatic support (what some refer to as the "inner tube" inside);
2. "rubber band" embouchure;
3. the art of slurring (moving smoothly from note to note through support and supple fingering;
4. self-critical regular practice; and
5. listening to great music and musicians (not just clarinetists).
Good luck!
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2008-03-24 19:54
#1: Get a clarinet teacher!
Not only to instruct you on playing the clarinet, but the teacher can help you to pick out a good clarinet on which to learn. There are a lot of things loosely called clarinets selling in the market place with nice "fancy" sounding brand names and pretty looks, some even sold by major name dealers & stores . . . you can easily get stuck with one of those horns that you want to avoid totally.
One recent beginner first posted on this board right after buying one of those "CSO" (clarinet shaped objects) horns . . . consider yourself lucky that you haven't bought a clarinet yet!
By the way, there is a search function in the area above the blue bar at the top of the messages that you read on here.
Bottom line: Get a teacher.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-03-24 20:08
What you will find similar about the Clarinet and Sax is that the upper notes on the Clarinet (with the thumb key called the "register key") is that the high notes are the same names and fingerings as the Sax - almost identical up to high B (ontop of leger line B).
So F is fingered like F on Sax when the Register key is pressed, G# same thing, F# same, etc.
Also the low notes on Clarinet sound just like Alto Sax when you are playing with the same fingers down - 3 fingers down on Clarinet is a low C which sounds the same as a G on Sax, 2 fingers is D on Clarinet which sounds like an A on Also Sax, etc.
As a general statement I feel that a Plastic Clarinet doesn't sound as good as a good wooden Clarinet, and a bad wooden Clarinet doesn't sound as good as anything..... 
Why doesn't plastic sound as good? It can be said that it is the dimensions that they are made with, or the material, anyones opinion, and there are many of them ......
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: bluesaxgirl
Date: 2008-03-24 21:09
It's kind of nice when your sax teacher plays clarinet too. He's made me aware of this plenty of times.
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2008-03-24 21:15
Bluesaxgirl, I was where you are about three years ago. Played sax and piano and wanted to add clarinet.
The first thing I woiuld say is that it's a lot easier to do clarinet first and then sax than the other way around. The clarinet is a lot more demanding in terms of correct finger position (covering the holes) and just correct playing. So just be patient. My teacher still has me practice things very slowly to build the correct finger memory.
As far as a beginning clarinet, if you can afford a wood one, they are generally made better, but there are a lot of good plastic ones and I don't find that much difference in the tone. I have both, and I was amazed at the beautiful sound my teacher had one day when he played my plastic Vito.
For a good new plastic clarinet, the Forte is very nice and very reasonably priced at about $400. A lot of pros on the board use it for a backup and speak highly of it. <www.forteclarinet.com>. It's imported by Dr. Omar Henderson, one of the highly respected contributors to and sponsors of the board, <www.doctorsprod.com>.
Also, for around 695 I think, Tom Ridenour makes a hard rubber instrument that a lot of people speak highly of.. <www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com>.
Get a decent mouthpiece. A lot of people recommend the Clarke Fobes debut (one of the sponsors on the board). I used a Hite Premier, which was also very good for about $30.
Good luck and just be patient. At least with me it is a longer learning curve than the sax, but well worth it.
Leonard
Post Edited (2008-03-24 21:21)
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Author: haberc
Date: 2008-03-24 22:56
Hi, the more I have played clarinet, the better I am on the sax. You will find, I believe, that your sax playing will feel more effortless and your tone will be stronger. That's been my experience. Good for you! Hurrah! Welcome to the very cool world of clarinet.
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Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-03-24 23:00
Quote:
The first thing I woiuld say is that it's a lot easier to do clarinet first and then sax than the other way around. The clarinet is a lot more demanding in terms of correct finger position (covering the holes) and just correct playing. So just be patient. My teacher still has me practice things very slowly to build the correct finger memory.
I'll second that. I actually started on clarinet/bass clarinet and learned sax and it was pretty easy for me because, as already mentioned, the saxophone fingerings are nearly identical to the upper register of the clarinet so I didn't really have to learn any new fingers; just had to think in terms of the clarinet's upper register. Whereas going from sax to clarinet, you'll have to learn a completely different set of fingerings for the lower register.
You'll also have to learn a completely different embachure. That was probably my biggest issue with switching to sax. Clarinet has a pretty tight embachure and if you loosen up too much, you squeak or don't get sound. But the sax, on the other hand, has a very loose embachure. You bite down too hard and everything tires to come out as the upper octave (I still struggle with anything below a 2nd line G).
As for getting the fingerings mixed up while playing, I've found that usually as long as I don't think about what I'm doing, it's not a problem. Once I start over thinking/second guessing the fingerings while I'm playing, that's when I have problems.
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Author: Copland
Date: 2008-03-25 00:30
Yeah, I went the other way (clarinet to alto sax) and didn't have too much of an issue.
Like Chelle said, if you don't think too hard about it, the fingers end up in the right place (obviously you have to learn the fingerings first, though!)
My brain (and I would guess other peoples') separate playing the saxophone and the clarinet, so I don't get mixed up very often. When I pick either up, I pretty much automatically do the things needed to make a good sound out of whichever instrument I'm playing.
It hasn't degraded my clarinet playing at all.
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2008-03-25 04:26
Welcome! Check back often here as you will find lots of good info.
Concerning going from A.S. to Clarinet, as others have said, it is generally easier to go the other way around. However, it can still be done. The issue is firmness of embouchure. At least you are coming from alto and not tenor.
The measure of your success will be how good is your clarinet sound. Musicians who play the various woodwind instruments like to make it hard for people to tell what their primary instrument is. That is, they want to be capable of getting a very characteristic sound whether the thing in their hands is a flute, clarinet, saxophone, bassoon, or an oboe.
For you to get a proper clarinet sound, get a wooden instrument. Other types of clarinets might work, but why leave it to chance? Concerning mouthpieces, I would start with something like a Vandoren 5RV-Lyre. This is about medium in the mouthpiece opening. Students in my area (Houston, TX) have had tremendous success with it. Later you might go to a more open dance/jazz mouthpiece as I suspect that is your desire. But don't fudge on equipment. Give yourself every chance for success on getting a good sound.
Also, as you start working with the clarinet, be aware of the angle at which you are holding the instrument. The air-stream going into a clarinet makes a considerably more abrupt turn than it does on a sax. On a sax you are blowing somewhat parallel to the reed, while on a clarinet your air goes more against or across the reed, depending on how you want to think of it. This is important in getting the characteristic clarinet sound. Above all, avoid making the clarinet sound like a sax.
Also, since the alto mouthpiece is larger than the clarinet, don't try to compensate for this by putting too much mouthpiece in your mouth.
As for fingerings, other responders are correct when that say that this is not a big issue. Somehow the brain easily keeps the fingering systems separate just by recognizing which instrument you are holding.
Concerning the embouchure, others are correct when they say the the clarinet embouchure must be firmer. However, don't try to accomlish this by biting or using lots of jaw pressure. The key to good sound is the "rubber band" idea that others suggested. The many muscles around your mouth work to create generally even pressure all around. Hence, a rubber band.
Be prepared for your chops to tire faster with the clarinet; especially in the beginning. A good tip might be to practice clarinet first. Then as you tire, go to the sax.
Also practice with a tuner. This will help you figure out what your embouchure should be doing.
I hope these comments help. Others have made some very good comments. But none of these will substitute for a good private teacher. Seek one out.
Good luck.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-25 11:43
Hi Bluesaxgirl, I took up clarinet after I'd been playing sax for a couple of years, so there's no problem adding clarinet later on.
But as has already been stressed, do get a good clarinet teacher as early as you can rather than learning bad habits. You'll probably find clarinet playing may even enhance your sax playing, and it's always a useful doubling instrument to have in conjunction with sax. And later on you can add flute if you plan to do pit or big band work, or if you want to go into teaching - but do find a specialist teacher on each instrument rather than a Jack-(or Jill-)of-all-trades (and a master of none).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SolidRockMan
Date: 2008-03-25 13:17
"For you to get a proper clarinet sound, get a wooden instrument. Other types of clarinets might work, but why leave it to chance?"
A rather simplistic statement?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-25 13:23
A lot of us who use this forum double on clarinet and sax. It's a great combination for a doubler. I started on clarinet as a child. When I first started on sax, as an adult, I was afraid I'd confuse the fingerings and mess myself up on both families of instruments. But, it didn't happen that way. The saxophones feel so different to me that I don't zone out and start using the wrong fingerings or embouchure, even when I'm playing soprano sax.
I think what happens to most of us to make doubling feasible is that differences automatically draw our conscious attention more than similarities do. There's probably some evolutionary advantage: Out in the landscape, the familiar things are safest and we don't pay as much attention to them. The thing that looks different, new (the river topping over its banks, the snake in the grass, the leopard sprawled on the branch of a tree) is most likely to be the thing that's dangerous. Our brains are programmed to spot differences and pay attention to them. The programming holds even when we know the new musical instrument won't bite. Usually! Although, be warned, clarinets do breed in the night, and so do their mouthpieces and their reeds.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-03-25 13:24)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-25 14:27
"For you to get a proper clarinet sound, get a wooden instrument. Other types of clarinets might work, but why leave it to chance?"
"A rather simplistic statement?"
Indeed - there are several good quality plastic and non-wooden clarinets (both student and pro quality) that anyone can make a good sound on, as well as many cheap wooden ones that don't have the same resonance as good plastic ones. The quality of sound is mostly down to the player, and a good player can even make a cheapo Chinese thing sound good (though they will find it's limitations).
So I'd invest in a good quality plastic (or any non-wooden bodied) clarinet by a reputable make rather than a wooden one to begin with, this should last you for several years and be easy to maintain. Also, keep the plastic one as a back-up when you do upgrade to a wooden one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-03-25 15:34
Two things:
1.) you have to cover the tone holes cleanly and completely on the clarinet --since you don't have those plateau pads to do the job for you. I had a wizz of an alto sax player -- she was about your age then. She COULD NOT close the tone holes on her clarinet, did not have the patience to slow down and "get it". Ended up giving up on the clarinet. SAD thing; she missed out on a great opportunity to extend her musical reach.
2.) Because the register key raises the pitch on a clarinet 1-1/2 octaves, it requires a bunch of extra keys to fill in that half octave gap. Some of these (the upper throat tones G, G#, A, Bb) are similar to the left and right hand side keys on your sax. A handful of others are manipulated by your pinkies around the mid-staff: 2-Bs, 2-Cs, 2C#s and only 1-D#. These keys are similar to those used to extend the sax range to lower notes.
BUT, since you go past these "long" notes going both up and down, you'll find that its going to take you a bit of work to get "easy" with them. You must always arrange to pick up your 4th line D#/4th space Eb with your RIGHT pinky.
Also, most clarinets do not have an articulated G# --that allows sax players to close the G# key by putting down any right hand finger. You have to drop the left hand G# key to get notes below it to speak.
Welcome to the joys of clarinetting. You are certain to enjoy your work!
Bob Phillips
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2008-03-26 11:50
Sorry, Chris P, but I'm going to stand by what I say. Wood is better than plastic. That's been debated here often. Since bluesaxgirl has been playing sax awhile, I assume she's beyond the raw beginner phase. She deserves a wooden instrument.
We are only as good as the last sound we made. Tone is everything. Again, why leave it to chance? Get wood.
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