 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2008-03-24 18:00
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ebay item 280209740242
Why did these clarinets bring over $3000? I was interested in the Selmer and was ready to bid $1200 or so, figuring I could reauction the others for a hundred or two apiece. Apparently, something here is more desirable than I suspected. Any ideas? One of the Buffets is described as 25 7/8 inches (I assumed erroneously) so maybe it's a high-pitch G clarinet?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-24 18:50
I couldn't believe this lot either when I saw them yesterday (yeah, taken in by the "Rare Set of Clarinets w/H Selmer, Buffet & Chedeville" bit), and that the price was way excessive for a load of old clarinets that are realistically worth around £20 each at the most.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-03-24 19:26
The only reason I can imagine is the magic Chedeville name. But this one is an instrument, not a mouthpiece.
The Bb has corps de rechange, i.e., 3 upper joints of varying length to permit playing at several pitches. I can see someone like Tony Pay being interested, but these are modern designs, rather than the period reproductions used in the Orchestra of the 18th Century or the Orchestre Revolutionaire et Romantique.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-24 20:36
"I can see someone like Tony Pay being interested, ..."
Oi, Tony! Are yer ears burning?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: 53engine
Date: 2008-03-24 20:36
A little jealous there, folks, that's a nice set of horns for a collector. They could likely be rebuilt into a beautiful and unusual addition to a collection. For some collectors, $3K isn't all that much if it's the very thing that you want. Remember what people were paying for Kaspar mouthpieces a few years ago-600 and 700 dollars.
I thionk that somebody made themselves a good deal.
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2008-03-24 22:06
That's right folks, these fine, expensive, rare clarinets are worth so much, we took a 2 hour photo shoot of them in the sunlight all day!....CA
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-03-25 01:06
These instruments would have been ideal for playing late 19C music. OAE and ORR don't do much of that. New Queens Hall Orchestra would be ideal. I was interested in these just for the key layout, they were all different if I remember.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2008-03-25 01:33
Well they are Albert system aren't they? I didn't get a good look at them but that's what they looked like -- definitely not Boehm if nothing else.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-03-25 02:01
The value here is totally historic. The fact that, if sold separately these clarinets would only total about $1000 at the most is not important because they represent what a working clarinetist had in their case. Evidence to say in historical reference, "Clarinetists in the 1880s had X". Sold separately, they are a bunch of junky Alberts- sold together, they tell you about the musical lifestyle of a period.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2008-03-25 02:17
It was a senseless bidding war. Typical ebay phenomenon.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-03-25 02:54
"It was a senseless bidding war."
Having spent some time in a museum doing research and hearing conversations about this or that acquisition, I highly doubt that this was senseless. It was a bidding war, but the bidders are probably collectors.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2008-03-25 10:16
anyone notice on the Buffet the G# key has an extension for the right hand to press .. thought that was a newer idea. Same for the Selmer except it's a rather thin sliver
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-25 10:32
"anyone notice on the Buffet the G# key has an extension for the right hand to press .. thought that was a newer idea. Same for the Selmer except it's a rather thin sliver"
German systems have been fitted with this extra G# touch for around 150 years or thereabouts http://www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de/infopopups/klarinetteninfo_ottensteiner.html http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Baermann.html http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/basycl_art.htm, and full Boehms and Boehms with articulated G# also have the extra G# touch (but as an extra 'sliver' key for RH2).
On Albert system and non-Boehms there's more room for the extra G# touch made in this way (as part of the G# touch) as the tonehole for RH1 is higher up the lower joint and there's only the socket ring in between it and the G# touch.
Boehms have the RH1 tonehole lower down and a pad cup in between, so the extra G# touch extention will need to be high enough so there's clearance between it when it's held down so it won't clatter on the RH ring key vent underneath it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-03-25 11:34)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-25 15:24
Well, a single similar one just sold for around $75....not a Buffet,however, rather a Lafayette.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-03-25 16:02
There is a mouthpiece in the pictures.
Only one.
Did some bidder ask the seller about it?
A private response might have indicated that it was a "valuable" mouthpiece, which can really change the auction.
(or perhaps I missed the mention of it in all the fine print)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2008-03-25 19:13)
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Author: Bill
Date: 2008-03-25 23:21
>"I highly doubt that this was senseless"
A bidding war by definition is senseless. The value of the items becomes irrelevant, like the beat-up Bettoney mouthpieces that sell for $600. Sense goes out the window.
But, great point about the aggregate nature of the collection, its window on the time period. Nicely observed.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-03-26 02:04
Yeah, as Ken pointed out above ("corps de rechange" and all that), this would have been an ideal set for a mid-level touring clarinetist whose itinerary might have taken him through locales using several different tunings. That the set is intact at this late date is kind of a wonder, when you think about it. If I had the capital to be THAT kind of a collector, I'd definitely be interested!
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2008-03-26 03:16
Hi folks:
I know people who bid on these, although I'm not sure who won them.
What you need to know is that there is a large number of people who play Albert. Oehler, or Simple system clarinets in the world. In particular, the Albert is the only favored system for Greek folk musicians and for Turkish folk musicians. Some traditional jazz musicians also favor this system for its tonal qualities.
The Buffets in particular are prized by Greek musicians, and many of them favor the version with the rollers on the little finger keys and the two rings on the upper joint.
I also play Albert system and am a Greek folk musician. I play Buffet C Albert system predominately, but sometimes use an A Buffet or a Bb Buffet. Perhaps I shouldn't tell everyone this, because then the prices may go up higher. There is even a petition going around which will be sent to the Buffet Crampon et Cie requesting that they start manufacturing the Albert system again.
I was not surprised at the price those clarinets went for. The Selmers are particularly prized by the jazz musicians.
It was interesting watching that auction, and if I didn't have more of these than I need, you can bet I would have been a bidder too!!!
Take care,
John
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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