 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-03-21 05:40
I have been making keys lately and I was thinking, "There has to be something easier than silver solder."
Going to a hardware store I found something for metal marketed under the Loctite brand, made in Irland. It works ok but is not as strong as I want.
Are there any glues that can be useful in key making? I have heard that some special glues are used for golf clubs and tennis rackets; is this true?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-21 06:48
Probably some kind of epoxy, but glue is glue and doesn't really become part of the structure like hard soldering - provided it's prepared well and there are no dry joints.
But bonding metal parts such as tenon rings, socket linings and other applications like this are best done with epoxy.
I think the force applied to such a small area would cause glues to fail if used to bond key arms to key barrels - there's always going to be some undue stress applied (careless handling or straightening a key that's bent)which will break the bond.
Though if the keys are made of polycarbonate, then a strong glue will be the only way to bond parts together.
http://www.vibratosax.com/index1.htm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-03-21 12:05
I've spent 30 years trying to glue metal parts (on automobiles and other things as well as instruments) and take my word for it, glue does not work on small metal parts. For keywork, there is no substitute for properly-applied silver solder.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-03-21 12:13
30 years David! You are an even slower learner than I am. :-)
Some early flutes had their keys made with lead solder, which is about the same strength as a good epoxy job.
The keys were pathetically weak. Parts would break off while the technician was working on them, and bend while being played. I doubt any are still being played. Just not strong enough for such small surface areas with significant leverage associated with the forces applied.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-21 12:26
I agree that solder is the only thing that will work. As a (now retired) pro stained glass designer-builder, I found examples of every type of glue on metal in stained glass lamps and windows that customers brought to me for repairs. All of those glued-up jobs were bub-fudge, even though some of them had been done, not by amateurs, but by two different stained glass professionals, one of whom was well-known and well-respected in the Washington, D.C. area. His traditional work looked good, but his "affordable" (cheap...) glue-jobs fell apart from their own weight, within months if not weeks. I never saw any stained glass object with a glue-to-metal bond that had held together for more than a year or so--and windows and lamps have no moving parts. No way will I ever use glue on a clarinet key for anything except inserting a pad or applying a cork.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-03-21 12:27)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-21 12:44
And even more fun working on saxes where broken off key guards and pillars have been glued on by their DIY owners, even if they did it with good intention.
But good intention aside, it just makes more work for anyone having to sort it out this kind of bodge-job, just as having to clean up and silver solder a key that has been soft soldered.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-22 12:34
>>But good intention aside, it just makes more work for anyone having to sort it out this kind of bodge-job, just as having to clean up and silver solder a key that has been soft soldered.>>
Oh yeah. Glue and silicon caulk are the twin curses of the stained glass business (although the worst cleanup job I had to do was on a Victorian window that came out of a fraternity house, where the old putty had dried and started falling out and the darling boys had stopped up the air and water leaks with chewing gum). My husband's pet hate, as a bookbinder and book restorer, is amateur repair work done with tape. I find tape on clarinets, too (just bought a pretty good one with a broken octave key taped together with duct tape wrapped around it!) but at least on a clarinet key, the tape is easy to remove. One of my criteria for any repair I do is: Can it be reversed? Glue can be a nightmare.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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