 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: hoppy
Date: 2008-03-19 09:01
I am a professional classical clarinettist looking for a decent metal clarinet. I am hoping to use it occasionally for concerts with jazzy repertoire - bit of fun with Rhapsody in Blue, etc. Obviously good pitch (A440) and intonation are crucial, so should I be looking for an instrument with a tunable barrel, such as a Conn 524N or Buescher? Is it possible to affect the pitch at all on an instrument such as a Silver King with double walled barrel, or does it only work when everything is pushed right in? How is the general intonation on these (or other) makes? Finally I'll also need the clarinet to have enough power to project through a big orchestra. Any advice very gratefully received! Thanks.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-03-19 10:26
This place looks like they make PRO models in metal.
http://www.orsi-wind-instruments.it/
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-19 10:26
All metal clarinets generally have a tuneable barrel (like a tuning slide) so pitch and tuning shouldn't be a problem provided they are low pitch. Some have a standard corked tenon and some have a sax-type locking nut at the top socket. Some have a one-piece body and soldered on bell (but with a sliding barrel) and others are in four sections.
If you want the ultimate metal clarinet, be on the lookout for a Selmer (Paris) - they came in all manner of keywork configurations from Albert system, 'Improved Albert' system, standard 17/6 Boehms right through to 20/7 full Boehms, in A, Bb and metal Ebs as well. Most I've seen on eBay have a microtuning barrel (like old Conn saxes).
I've overhauled and played a Conn Cavalier metal clarinet and it had just as much tonal depth as a wooden clarinet and excellent tuning. Not at all going on the assumptions that a lot of people (who have never seen or even played one) seem to think in that they have no tonal depth or character, or they sound like a soprano sax (I can't see why as they're a clarinet and not a soprano sax, though there are some people that make a wooden clarinet sound like a badly played soprano sax).
If metal clarinets didn't work, Leblanc would not be building metal contras. It's only snobbery from other players that metal soprano clarinets hardly ever seen being played in 'serious' settings (and even some conductors don't like the look of metal contras!), though if you think about it, they're far less likely to encounter the problems that wooden and plastic clarinets can have.
This'll wet your appetite:
http://www.uark.edu/ua/nc/NCCollectionPage/Page/SelmerMetalFullBoehm.htm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-03-19 10:38)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-19 10:56
Those are beautiful, Chris,thanks. I own 3 metal cls. , one LeBlanc and 2 Cundys. All sound no different from wood cls.
Bob Draznik
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Author: hoppy
Date: 2008-03-19 11:51
Thanks Chris,
I just wasn't sure if there was a bit of wiggle room for tuning on the ones that don't have the micro-tuning barrel, like the Silver Kings. They seem to be on the market more than some of the other top end instruments. Maybe Howarths would like to make one..?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-19 12:22
If you come across an H. Bettoney Silva-Bet (1920s and 1930s), that one is excellent and has a tuning barrel. Some Silva-Bets also come apart at the center joint. Play it with a vintage mouthpiece if you can get one, for best intonation. Also make sure that if there's a pitch marking, it's LP, not HP, unless you want to be able to play your Bb clarinet as a clarinet in C! (When there's no pitch marking, it's LP, concert a=440.)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-03-19 12:23)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-19 14:21
Are these Silver Kings made by HN White?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2008-03-19 15:26
Of my metal clarinets I like my Bettoneys best. I have a Bb and an Eb. They're not Silva-Bet (which I've never had the chance to try) but they're not student models either (like the Three-Star) -- I think they are nearly identical to Silva Bets, but without any bells and whistles. They don't have a microtuner, but they have a double-walled barrel that is just as useable for tuning as the barrel of a wood clarinet. Thepitch and sound are very nice and they 'feel' good. They're common at ebay and usually go pretty cheap -- the Bb's anyway.
I have a couple of Selmers (one Boehm, one Albert) and a Buescher (all with microtuners). They're not bad but I like the Bettoneys better, mostly for ergonomics. The thumbrest on the Selmers is very uncomfortable. I have a Harry Pedler that would be a wonderful instrument but it's irretrievably sharp because the microtuner is frozen in fully-retracted position. That's something to watch out for if you're going to buy from ebay: make sure the microtuner is working, they tend to freeze up.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-03-19 16:41
you can unfreeze the barrels. put some silcone lubricant in between the area, let it sit overnight, then grab two wrenches and clamp each on the moving and stationary side. twist and voila. once the mechanism starts moving, add a little more lub and keep an eye on it over time to prevent further lockage.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-19 17:00
....or you might try WD40 plus heat for awhile.....and not worry about any wood cracking
Bob Draznik
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Author: hoppy
Date: 2008-03-19 17:30
Chris,
Yes, I am referring to the Silver Kings by H N White. I have played a metal Conn many years ago in a shop in Paris and liked it very much, but can't remember any details. I'm sure a Selmer would also be great, but I've never seen one up for sale. Thanks again
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-19 17:35
Being a fan of Super 20 saxes (alto and tenor of the HN White era with all pearl touches, though I don't own either) I'm liking the idea of the Silver King clarinet!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-03-19 22:04
I'd love to have a Silver King clarinet, as it would go well with my #1 saxes, all of them silver-plated Kings from the 1920s: soprano, alto, C-melody, and tenor! Don't have a King baritone sax from that era because back then baris were built with a limited upper range (to Eb only) and I must have the third palm key and r.h. side key. Not bragging, just glad to have these well-made and fine-playing instruments from an era when quality materials and fine craftsmanship were standard equipment.
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Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-03-22 04:22
I have a Conn 524 which I recently refurbished and got playable again and just playing it by itself, my mom and I can both tell a definite difference in the tone between it and my wodden Buffet E13. But having said that, I took it to pit orchestra rehearsal and played it there (just for fun) and when playing with the whole ensemble, the tone difference wasn't as jump-out-and-smack-you-in-the-face noticeable.
I will say that as someone just learning to do her own instrument overhauls, it did seem that it was actually easier to work on and level pads on than my wooden clarinets (the raised tone holes makes it easier to see if a pad is sealing correctly). And I don't know if I just did a better job fixing it or if it's just the nature of the instrument, but it's easier to play than my E13.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-03-22 13:48
The only real disadvantage of metal clarinets is that the toneholes cannot readily be undercut and/or relocated as with wood, hard rubber or even plastic clarinets. With metal, one is essentially limited to fixed, straight-side toneholes (although, if the tonehole chimney has a thick wall as on some older instruments, a limited amount of bevelling/radiussing can be done). So a true acoustical comparison between metal and non-metal clarinets should be using a non-undercut clarinet --- I believe an E-13 has undercut toneholes so right away the comparison is skewed.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2008-04-13 05:04
Most of the ones with micro-tuners were pro models. Some, like the Silva Bet shipped with either the micro tuner neck or a much lighter neck with no moving parts. I use a Silva Bet in A with a light barrel from a student model -- in fact, one that I cut down a half inch to make the length correct. It plays at least as well as the micro tuner barrel. For a while, I was using a reverse taper wooden barrel which Walter Grabner fitted with a plastic insert to make compatible with the smaller neck of the Silva Bet. To be honest, I think the tone was better. Unfortunately, the plastic fitting came loose and I haven't reglued.
As to which models -- My current favorite is the Penzel Muller double walled Clari-Met model. (They also made a single walled Clari-Met model which was quite good.) Second is either a Silva Bet or a Conn model 524. The Conns occasionally go cheap on eBay, so I kept one in my car and seemed to always be using that one. I think it is the lightest of the pro models, has very pretty keywork and works very well for me.
For some reason, I have never gotten a Selmer to work right. I suppose I should take one to a pro and get the last kinks out. Bueshcers and Buffets are my least favorite of the pro models. The Bueschers supposedly have undercut tone holes.
I suspect that I would sound about the same playing a modern pro quality wooden horn. I like the metal clarinets because they are fun and because you can leave 'em in your call all year round.
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