 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: donald
Date: 2008-03-13 19:04
as i understand it...
LP (low pitch) was close to modern pitch A=440
HP (high pitch) is about a semitone higher (which is why a high pitch B flat clarinet sounds like a clarinet in B natural)
Is this the case?
this question is in relation to the markings on pre WW2 english instruments
dn
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Author: donald
Date: 2008-03-14 03:54
Thanks Norbert- so, as i thought LP is pretty much the same as "Modern pitch" in the practical sense (especially given that most players have to pull out as they warm up).
thanks for the info
dn
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-03-14 07:46
What I find surprising is the apparent inconsistency in using LP and HP designations on these instruments. I have a pre-WW1 pair which is not marked at all, but plays to modern pitch (to be precise they would prefer to play a little higher, but they certainly are not HP). I also have a c. 1920 clarinet, ostensibly from the same maker (Hawkes & Sons) and this is marked LP. It too would probably prefer to play a little higher than A = 440 but it will do so. It seems that the point about the instrument being LP was a given in the earlier clarinet, but had to be stated on the later one, which is a bit difficult to understand.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-14 12:57
The last time I checked that Wikipedia article, a lot of it was wrong, so beware! The trouble with Wikipedia is that any schlub can go in there and mutate anything.
In buying old clarinets, I've also run into inconsistencies with markings--and quite a few instruments from the relevant time period aren't marked at all. The pair of 1921 Buffets I bought a few weeks ago (with an original receipt from a store in Paris, not the USA) have no LP or HP marking on them. The one constant has been that any instrument marked HP has proven to be *very* high. Sometimes, that's good. I've got one old Bb HP clarinet that I can easily "lip up" with a hard reed to function as a clarinet in C--something I don't officially own yet
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: clancy
Date: 2008-03-14 23:39
I have a pair of pre war Boosey and Hawkes 1010s with the LP stamp below the serial numbers.
The tuning is not as high as I have found the Boosey London and Paris 1010 models from the same period.
I can believe the LP meaning A 439 - My clarinets seem to want to center around 439-440, there are bad notes of course but the core cannot be raised too much over 440-441 when warmed up. I even had to buy some shorter barrels to get up to the higher pitch playing in Europe. A friend of mine used to play pre war 1010s and mentioned his pair had very similar tuning characteristics.
Id be interested to learn how the staff at Boosey and Hawkes tuned the pre war 1010s, what sort of system they used - lets just say they arent as automatic in terms of tuning as todays instruments, fantastic sound but stressful to work with in an ensemble. Take a listen to Thurstons later recordings when he used his 1010s - he was a fabulous player but had some dreadful pitch problems.
Post Edited (2008-03-14 23:43)
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Author: b.roke
Date: 2008-03-15 06:12
the instrument to which donald is referring has - "Made By Boosey & Hawkes Ltd London 31928 LP" - as its only marking. no 1010, no Imperial and no Symphony. it has the flat rings on the barrel and lower joint that are on the 1010's. it also has an extra key between the 2 ring keys on the top joint. it is hard to tell from the photo's what it does.
the serial dates it to just after B&H formed in the early 30's. it appears to be a 1010 in all but name(or number) and may have been made before they were named. any further information/speculation would be appreciated.
.
steadfastness stands higher than any success
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Author: clancy
Date: 2008-03-15 09:16
My clarinets are stamped exactly the same way
Bb - Made by Boosey and Hawkes Ltd London 315** LP
A - Made by Boosey and Hawkes Lts London 315** LP
The original mouthpiece - Boosey and Hawkes Makers London BM2
They are 1010s, the top of the line clarinets made by Boosey and Hawkes in the 1930s. I believe these were made before they assigned numbers to their models, 1010, 926, etc. I was also told that the Imperial existed during this time but the Symphony model wasnt introduced until after the war? Another note - the 1010 instruments were not greatly received after the war and many players held onto their pre war 1010s like these for dear life until Peter Eaton and Rossi started making wide bore instruments very recently.
Try contacting Peter Eaton, he knows a lot about the old Boosey Instruments, used to play them himself.
Basically what you have there is the holy grail of vintage English instruments - I know retired pro players who are still looking for that magic pair of pre wars...Sadly, most of them are blown out, cracked or worn so badly that they arent playable. My pair is in good shape but quite a handful for the repairman - surely somewhere in the depths of England there must be dozens of unplayed pre war 1010s lurking in attics...
[ Edited - GBK ]
Clancy
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-15 18:39
"it also has an extra key between the 2 ring keys on the top joint."
That's a 'Bis key' (as found on saxes), so you can play Bb with LH 1 closing it's tonehole and reaching across to close the Bis key to lower the 2nd ring and it's vent key to give Bb - x,oo|ooo. Though it will be a slightly sharp Bb and a very sharp Eb in the lower register.
I tried one of these same clarinets that once belonged to Thea King not so long ago (it belongs to one of the band members), and it was flippin' LOUD! This one was from around 1935 and didn't say 1010 on it, though the bore diameter and bell flare were 1010 in style (the bell mouth has rounded inside edge, not squared like the 926 and lower). All the name stampings were on the front, including the serial number and 'LP'), and 'Boosey & Hawkes' in Gothic script.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-03-17 12:14
A former teacher of mine had a pair like these (who knows, he may have sold them and all we are doing is talking about the same actual pair, but anyway...........). His father, who played them professionally in the 1930s had left them to him. He sometimes produced them and I was able to hear the difference between them and a 1970s B flat 1010 which he more usually played. All I can say is that the earlier instruments were very different. Very free blowing but with a distinct tendency to harshness.
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