 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2008-02-28 17:36
This question is directed at people who own and play Buffet Prestiges that are no more then 12/13 years old. Do you half hole C#6? On my instrument it makes no difference in tuning whether you do or you don't. On some instruments, newer Selmers for example, it is impossible to play this note half holed. I also remember being reprimanded by my first bass teacher for doing so.
Just curious as I'm trying to break myself of the habit and really wonder why bother, specially when you are going up past the C#. Now if you are approaching only C# from below, then one can save some finger motion.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-02-28 17:54
On mine it depends when and how.
When I start the C# it is better without the first finger but is ok with the half hole too. The sound and intonation is good anyway but response is a tiny bit better without the half hole.
If I move or jump from a lower note I'll probably not use the half hole, unless the C# continues to a higher note and in that case I might use the half hole for C#.
If I come from a higher note like D or E I'll probably keep my finger on the half hole since this way it makes no difference at all.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-02-28 18:43
I seldom use the half-hole for the C# on my bass. Also, I often opt to play that C# with just the first finger and the D with no fingers. Works for me and my Buffet Prestige low C.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-02-28 20:02
I know this was not directed to me since I play an old model Selmer but I teach bass clarinet as well as clarinet and have had several students with the newer Buffets. In any case, it doesn’t matter. Every instrument is slightly different depending on whether it has a tiny leak, or the type of mouthpiece you use, or even the way you voice that register. The bottom line is that they should both work though one might me better than the other. Which ever way works best in a given situation that’s the one to use. Your first teacher, in my opinion, was wrong to tell you not to ever use it. You should have every possible fingering at your command so you can choose to use what’s best at that time. By the way, I find the thumb and 2 side keys with the register key, the same as throat tone F# with the R key, to be a great C#. I use that as much or more then either of the others, depending on where I’m going or coming from. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2008-02-28 21:55)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-29 00:11
I've had an adjustment screw and linkage fitted to mine (Buffet Prestige) so closing LH 2 lowers the perforated plate for LH 1 so you can use the same fingerings as a soprano carinet in the lower altissimo (by lifting LH 1). And it can be fully disengaged from LH 2 as well. But I still instinctively roll down to uncover the perforation in LH 1 for the altissimo, even if it's being held down by LH 2.
An old Conn bass that came to me didn't have the perforated fingerplate and extension plate on LH 1 (just a covered plate like the others), though I fitted these to it so the owner could get better tuning from altisimo Eb upwards (as the altissimo went sharp and uncrontrollable with the LH 1 tonehole completely open).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-02-29 07:14
I too don't have your intrument, but it seems to work well with the half hole or without it on this note.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-02-29 11:14
Like clarnibass I use the half hole coming down from higher notes and not when ascending.
William I do the same technique on the solo in Grand Canyon Suite using the "cheat fingerings" for the C-C#-D using the side keys for C# and just the octave key for the D. IMHO this makes those notes the same in timbre and resistance. It feels less nerve-wracking to me too in getting the notes out smoothly and the same dynamic level.
Eefer guy
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2008-02-29 19:03
Thanks for all the comments, I now don't feel so bad that half holed C# seems stamped forever in my brain. Here is another question, how many of you use the right hand pinky Eb/Ab key when playing D6 and above, here is another case where on my instument it makes no tuning difference and is just a habit carried over from the soprano clarinet. Unfortunately I've never figured out how to make a G6 that isn't flat.
BTW my current teacher has a relatively new Selmer bass to low C and a half holed C# must be avoided like the plague. It's really a stinky note on his instrument.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-29 19:06
What fingerings are you using for altissimo G?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-03-01 06:20
Bill, what model is this relatively new Selmer bass clarinet is? If I remember right on the 35/37 the C# played much better without the half hole. I remember specifically because the player who was using it for the first time struggled with C# until I told him to try without the key and then everything was ok. But I don't remember if the C# with half hole is a problem on the new Privilege model.
I almost never use the Ab/Eb key for the altisimo notes. I'll check the G later.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2008-03-01 14:47
Sorry to mislead at the beginning of this posting. I thought my teacher's horn was a fairly new Selmer.
My teachers comments
"Actually, my Bass is a fairly new Buffet Prestige.
And I do find it impossible to use the half hole on
that note . . . it simply won't speak. But without
the half-hole, it works great."
I've tried every fingering here for G6 http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/clarinet/basscl_alt_2.html and the note is always thin and flat. Maybe I really need to use harder reeds then the Gonzalez 2.75 or 3.0 now employed on a Grabner CX_BB.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2008-03-01 15:07)
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2008-03-01 15:59
the wfg.woodwind.org site is a bit inconsistent with the spatulas indicated to press, there. I think the pictoral column has the F# depressed (right little finger) but the written version says G# to press.
Try, from the last link I posted
RT -2-|-2- G#
RT 1--|123 G#
RT -2-|--- G#
RT 12-|--- G#
as in this diagram
Chris
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-03-01 16:49
That's a little strange, but since the C# without the half hole is slightly better response then maybe with the voicing of your teacher it is harder and he can't use it. Maybe you can try each other's clarinets and compare? I don't know when your teacher's Buffet is from but at least on new Buffet bass clarinets from approx. 2001, 2004 and 2005 it was definitely possible to play the C# with the half hole.
On mine I have a different size register hole which I've done for other reasons. I've tried right now both with my register tube and the original size, and both response when playing C# with half hole, and both have slightly better response without the half hole. You simply have to be a tiny bit more careful with your voicing when using the half hole.
About the G, I've tried the fingerings in your link.
The first one is very flat but pressing the F#/C# key makes it flatter so it's better to use the Ab/Eb key instead, but it's still a little flat, though with careful embochure (sp?) it can be in tune without trying too hard. This has slightly resistant sound but is still ok.
Using the Ab/Eb is better than F#/C# also for the second fingering, but is too flat anyway (but good reponse and sound).
The third one has pretty good intonation, just very slightly flat, you can make it slightly sharper by not covering the half hole. Also good response and sound.
The last one doesn't work at all on my bass clarinet (plays a different note).
But the fingering I use the most for G, which has very good intonation and sound, much easier to play than all the above, and isn't even on that chart for some reason is:
Register key, thumb, half hole, left hand middle finger key and right side Eb/Bb key.
Hope this helps.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2008-03-01 17:21
Finally RT 1--|123 G# works for me and produces a nice sounding note. Thanks for all the ideas.
My Buffet is 27XXX which dates it from mid to late 1994. My teacher's Buffet is only a couple of years old.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-03-02 06:09
I'm wondering how does the last fingering I suggested - Register key, thumb, half hole, left hand middle finger key and right side Eb/Bb key - works on your bass clarinet?
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2008-03-02 16:40
clarnibass.....your last suggestion is too flat on my horn
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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