 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-02-27 21:58
I purchased a new R-13 A Clarinet the other day, and it appears as best I can tell from play-testing it that it is in great shape--good intonation, etc.
I had a little concern about one particular fingering, however, which I usually refer to as "2&2 Ab" (It's been about 15 years since I last studied under a teacher, so I honestly can't remember if anyone else calls it this). If you're familiar with recorder fingerings, this is basically the same fingering you use for Ab on a recorder. You finger a standard clarion "A," but then add the first and second fingers of your right hand--like 1&1 Bb, but with two fingers down from each hand instead of one.
I've used this fingering occasionally on the Bb Clarinet to avoid pinky slides. (e.g., Brahms Sonata #2, mvt. 1 in the Ab major triplet theme that appears approx. mid-movement: Eb (RH), C (LH), Ab (2&2)). It's not a particularly beautiful fingering on the Bb (my Bb is an R-13, too, by the way), but it at least works and has come in handy on occasion since I don't have a left-hand Eb/Ab lever. (By the way, if anyone knows of a better way to finger this little Brahms passage, I'm all ears. I worked the piece up myself as an adult without the benefit of a teacher, so I don't know how people traditionally handle this spot from a technical standpoint.).
When I tried the same fingering on my new A instrument, though, all I get is some kind of unstable squeak. As it turns out, I've never had an occasion to play 2&2 on an A instrument before, so my question is this: Is this just one of those funny cross fingerings that works on Bb instruments but not on A instruments? Or could this be a defect in my new instrument? Is it (gasp) just me??? Also, for curiosity's sake, do people have this problem on other brands of clarinet besides Buffet?
By the way, my 1&1 Bb sounds good on the A (as good as 1&1 gets, anyway). It's just the 2&2 that doesn't work.
Also, if this 2&2 problem is endemic to the A instrument (or at least R-13's), is there a good workaround--i.e., is there another decent Ab fingering that avoids using the left-hand pinky? On a related note, is there a better way to do this on a Bb instrument, too?
Thanks!
Mike
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-02-28 01:24
It's a new instrument. It should see a tech. Perhaps wait a couple months, then take it in for adjustment. There aren't any fingerings I know of that work on Bb and not A.
I tried that fingering in the Tchaik Piano Concerto #1, IIRC. Comes in handy once in a very long while.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-02-28 02:22
I sometimes have tried to use "2 and 2" as you call it. It is not as clear on my A as on my Bb. As for the Brahms- I slide between the Eb and C in the right hand pinky. It is not a slur so it is not a problem.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-02-28 03:27
Thanks for the replies.
Kalmen Opperman, in his book on fingerings, suggests that some fingerings that work well on the Bb may "hardly work" on the A, although he doesn't give any examples of this, nor does he give any commentary on the individual fingerings contained in the book. (That being said, it's still not a bad book)
2&2 Ab is the first fingering I've tried that really doesn't seem to transfer well from one instrument to the other, so I was wondering if this was a shared experience--especially since with a new instrument, you never quite know what might be up.
Of course, now that I've thumbed through the book, I see that Opperman adds the Eb/Ab key to his 2&2--so I'll have to give that a try and see what happens.
Thanks again!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-02-28 03:36
The only time I've ever used that fingering is in the Galanta Dances and one of the Baerman Etudes, book 4 I believe. It's really a false fingering and really doesn't sound pure or true but works when there is no other choice. It simply does not have the tone quality of the surrounding notes. With that said, it should sound just as poor on either clarinet, it's just that the A clarinet usually needs to be voiced slightly different when you're not used to it. When I show it to a student it usually takes a few tries to get it to come out, it's very stuffy and unclear but works when playing very quickly to and from. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2008-02-28 17:45
I agree with ESP. I only use that fingering on tremolos (Ab to E, clarion) or a very fast passage when there is no good choice. It is a false fingering that doesn't sound nice by itself, and it requires more air to make it speak.
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2008-02-28 20:21
"There aren't any fingerings I know of that work on Bb and not A."
Completely untrue. (not that you don't know, but that they don't exist.)
In short, instruments are all different and you can use some fingerings that may work well on one instrument that do not transfer hardly at all to the other. (and I'm talking Bb to Bb.)
Bb to A can be especially different. A is completely different (in a focused, precise sense) than Bb when it comes to correct sound, etc.
Figure it out. Don't expect it to be the same.
CA
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-02-29 00:25
I'm not talking about working *well*, I'm talking about working at all. Of course there are huge variabilities between different individual instruments and different makes of instruments. In my experience, any fingering I've used on a well-adjusted Bb also works on a well-adjusted A.
After mentioning to my technician (before getting it adjusted) that things play way differently (usually harder) on my A and that's just the way it is, because it's common knowledge that's just how A clarinets are, my technician was aghast, suggesting that that would only be the case if the A was in significant disrepair.
Having had my Bb and A worked on by said tech, there's virtually no difference in playing facility between the two, other than a slight increase in required air volume on A and a slightly different tone.
The fingerings may have varying levels of responsiveness, but, barring technical imperfections, I maintain that a fingering on a Bb will produce the same result on an A of similar design (a half step lower, of course). Its A-ness alone, in my experience, does not change that.
"A clarinets are fussier than Bbs" is something I've heard quite a bit, an anecdote of nearly legendary mythological status that seems to have been repeated unquestioningly by many parties, especially those with A clarinets in shoddy condition or of lesser quality. I've heard people claim it by and large more often than I've seen actual evidence to support it.
Or perhaps I'm full of it and just haven't come across said fingerings...
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2008-03-03 17:55
Quote:
The only time I've ever used that fingering is in the Galanta Dances and one of the Baerman Etudes, book 4 I believe.
I've used it in Bozza's Claribel. It is a horrid note on my Bb, but I've never tried adding the Eb key. Likewise, the 2+2 is worse on my A, which is overall a better horn. I agree with Alex - I avoid it unless absolutely stuck and need to create the illusion of the note such as in a quick arpeggio, etc.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-03-03 20:44
Thanks for everyone's replies. I fiddled around with the voicing I was using on the A clarinet, like Ed suggested, and I was able to get the note to speak OK. It's ugly as anything, but at least it's the right note.
In any case, I need to become a better pinky slider, it seems . . . :-)
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