 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-21 13:45
Hi, I'm new here, and am returning to the clarinet after a few years of not playing one so I'm starting again so to speak.
I used to be the proud owner of a B&H Imperial (926) in Grenadilla, circa somewhere around 1960-70 which I sold a few years ago (shortage of funds I'm afraid).
I now have the opportunity to replace the venerable old 926 with an ebonite version of roughly the same vintage (if not older).
Can anyone tell me if these two sound significantly different, I remember that the wooden 926 had a lovely tone and was hoping to hear that the ebonite version is fairly similar.
Lastly, since B&H models is not that well represented here (seems like the Buffet models reign supreme here), can anyone tell me roughly where the Imperial sits in the heirarchy.
I understand that it is an intermediate or step-up model as opposed to top notch. I also fancy a Selmer Signet Soloist I've seen recently, how would the Imperial compare with that (wood as opposed to ebonite, I know).
Many thanks in advance, and congratulations to you all on a very informative and knowledgeable BB.
Mike
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-21 14:07
The current equivalent (for new-for-old valuation purposes) of the B&H Imperial 926 is a Buffet R13, Leblanc Concerto or Yamaha YCL-CX.
The B&H will be a better clarinet than the Selmer Signet in terms of build quality, and some people prefer the ebonite-bodied B&H clarinets to their wooden-bodied counterparts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-21 14:19
Thanks Chris,
Wow, a Buffet R13, it seems to be in good company then, I'm a little surprised about the preference for ebonite over wood though, although after visiting Tom Ridenour's site maybe I should'nt be.
I can't wait to get my hands on it in that case, looks like it could be a bargain for less than 100 pounds (thats about $200 these days Chris).
I have read this site quite extensively in the last few days and understand from Dave Speigthel (hope I spelled that correctly) that B&H have a few intonation problems which can be 'adjusted' by means of under-cutting. Can anyone explain what this means and if it can be done on an ebonite instrument.
Lastly, can a faded horn be restored to former glory ?? (colour-wise at least).
Thanks
Mike
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-21 16:21
(I'm in W.Sussex, not the US according to the ISP doo-dah)
B&H made ebonite versions of their clarinets for use in military bands and exports to the tropics, but as ebonite ages and turns green/brown there's not much that can be done to restore the colour unless you have it machine polished to remove the outermost layer of ebonite (which could do more harm than good), though there are products that will darken the ebonite (see Omar L. Henderson's 'Doctor's Products').
Undercutting toneholes can be done on ebonite clarinets, but you really need to send it to someone (like David Spiegelthal) that knows what to do and where, and how much undercutting is done. Most 926 clarinets I've played are sharp in the throat notes, and pulling the (stock 67mm) barrel out by 1.5-2mm puts it in tune with itself. If you have a barrel marked 'SHORT' (which is around 62mm) then this will only exacerbate tuning problems in the throat and upper part of the upper register.
£100 is a good price for a 926, and it's worth having all done up. I know Imperials usually go for somewhere between £300-£500 depending on their condition, but you will inevitably spend over the initial buying price of any instrument over the time you have it for in maintainance (same with used cars).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-02-22 07:14
The problem with the 926 was that few people took it sufficiently seriously, and it came to be thought of as second best to the 1010, which was exacerbated by lower pricing (the 1010 sold at a premium). But there were many who thought them better than the 1010, and as far as I am aware, they were made to the same production standards as the 1010.
Depsite the problems around the throat, what they appeared to offer over the 1010 was tuning reliability, though there was a feeling that they might be a little inflexible in that regard, and some people thought they played a bit too straight to give full reign to artistic expression. That said, if you are already aware of how they play, you will not find that to be a problem.
Mouthpiece choice is vital of course. I suggest you at least consider Ed Pillinger's mouthpieces as he makes 926 mouthpieces specifically (I have no business connections with Ed Pillinger).
£100 is so low, it is either in dreadful condition or you are on to a winner.
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-22 08:00
Hi Graham,
Thanks for your opinion, It is quite a few years ago since I last played a 926 I am hoping I don't remember it too fondly for my own good but I do seem to recall it had lovely tone. (of course it was a wooden version and I have a great fondness for all things wooden).
Appreciate the advice on mce's as I was already wondering what to do about that as it has a la fleur mpc on at the moment. I see some good looking ones around on Ebay right now, including Vandoren B44, B45, Selmer C85 120, Buffet, Riffault, Dave Hite (missed that one).
Where can I get hold of Ed Pillinger bye the bye ? (and what does he typically charge for a 926 mpc).
Lastly, I have not yet seen the instrument, I am buying at a distance but have seen a photo of it, it looks at least to be in one piece but I cannot verify that all the parts match or the general condition so I know I am taking a big risk on it. Still, at 60 pounds (well thats' less than 100 !!) I figure it's worth that risk.
He-he, I hope I'm not left with egg on my face after that last comment but even if it costs between 100-150 pounds to restore it, it will still be a cheap instrument.
Thanks again
Mike
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-22 14:15
I've never used the word 'exacerbate' until I watched 'Shaun of the Dead', now this is the thrid time it's been said in the same thread!
(And dogs can look up.)
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: b.roke
Date: 2008-02-22 19:35
re the mpc. i would suggest getting in touch with dave spiegelthal and seeing if he has anything or whether it's possible to modify/improve the la fleur . i think that la fleur is a boosey brand.
dave touched up the mpc that came with my 1010 and has been very successful in making it very playable.
and if the 926 is as good as a 1010 then i would grab it. i am totally enjoying my 1010 - but i am an amateur and play only for pleasure.
.
steadfastness stands higher than any success
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-23 01:30
Hi B.roke (hope that's not true)
Do you or anyone else here have a recent email address for Dave (Speigelthal) as I tried the one here and it does not work. Alternatively, is there a 'private message' (PM) function on this BB ??
Anyway, looking forward to the 926 arriving, should be interesting to see what I got for the money !!!!
Cheers
Mike
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Author: b.roke
Date: 2008-02-23 02:55
here's the one i've always used
dspieg@earthlink.net
and it has always worked for me. maybe he'll see this thread and contact you directly.
.
steadfastness stands higher than any success
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-25 05:12
Thanks to all who have replied here,
I have one final question, in the photo which can be seen here (for a short while at least), there are two barrels in the case.
<http://www.trade-it.co.uk/AdRef/YI803HC69/Class/325/ParentClass/8049/Category/3360/Editions/1U%7CBristol%7C2L,4T,3C,3D/Web/FullAdDetails.asp>
Can anyone give me some idea why this would be ?? (obviously to achieve a different Bb tone frequency I'm thinking, but is it possible to tune a Bb to A with just a barrel change ??). Would this addition in any way help to identify the age of the instrument (seller says no serial number evident but suspects 1950's).
Please excuse my ignorance in these matters, but I have very little experience when it comes to anything other than the stock Bb instruments (and not too much experience even with them).
Thanks
Mike
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-25 09:17
I'd assume this one is ex-military as it's also got a lyre in the case, and to have both barrels and original case (from the '50s) means it's been either auctioned off by the military or kept by it's player when they retired.
The two barrels are used to adjust the tuning - if it's cold (ie. marching or playing outdoors in winter) they'd probably use the short barrel to keep the pitch up (though it only really affects the throat notes and upper part of the upper register), though for indoor use they'd use the long barrel.
Going by the photo, it's all complete, looks to be in good condition (though that's not to say what the pads and corks are like). There's some plating wear on the throat A and G# keys from what I can see (which is normal) and this can be replated - I presume the ring keys may have plating wear as well, though this won't affect it's playability (and this too can be sorted out).
For £60 I still think it's well worth it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-25 10:54
Thanks Chris,
Yes I would agree with your judgement, ebonite would be a good choice for a military band instrument, lets hope it was not abused too much, but as you say it looks to be complete and in good condition, worth keeping I'd say, and also worth some TLC if required.
Just goes to show, there are still bargains out there if your lucky (I keep hoping an R13 will come up for $100 somewhere but I can't see me being so lucky with that one !!).
I wish there was some way to refurbish the colour as I'm not sure I like the faded brown look, but so long as it plays OK, I should be satisfied.
Thanks again
Mike
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-25 15:12
Chris,
I have to commend you on your powers of observation, you got a lot more from this photo than I did (mind you, I conclude that you have a trained eye).
It will be nice to keep this venerable old gentleman in business I should say, and I am looking forward to having some fun with it, I guess it's about the same age as me (1954 vintage).
Thanks for all your help, this really is some website .....
Mike
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-25 22:29
If this clarinet could talk, I'm sure it'll have plenty to say.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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