 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-08 16:49
As much as I'd prefer a Marcellus tone and all... Ricardo really has developed a reputation as the most wanted clarinet player alive today. What has he won? Principal of the Met? Philly? and now Chicago? This guy is bringing clarinet to a new age of the 21st century. What do you guys think?
A new evolution from.....???BONADE??? sounds crazy huh? American playing truly has changed!
Chris
Post Edited (2008-02-08 16:56)
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Author: vin
Date: 2008-02-08 17:21
Ricardo may be the best, but to say he has changed American clarinet playing is something that can't be proven yet. Bonade had a whole host of students win big jobs and who held up his playing as the ideal. While many hold Ricardo's playing as the ideal, Bonade's influence was greater because he directly influenced (through teaching) the next generation, and the generation after that. Ricardo is still relatively young and has had some students win jobs; most of his influence on American clarinet playing, however, is on people who listen to him. It is far to early to tell. Bonade had a full career teaching the top players. Ricardo is still in his thirties. It's not really fair to compare. As far as "American playing has truly changed," I would say there are many top players who respect Ricardo but aren't trying to sound like him. Let us give the man his credit as a monster player; but trying to decide his place in history is premature.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-02-08 17:34
And how do you compare Ricardo's amazing playing from Frost's ridiculous playing?
Time will tell, but they (and others) are quite hard to compare!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-08 17:35
Vin. I totally agree with you. I humbly apolgoize and acknowledge Ricardo as a natural
Chris
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2008-02-08 17:43
Once more, we seem to have to have to have one winner--one "best"--with everyone else ranked in a single-file line behind him or her.
There are likely many "bests" out there, some of whom have probably never held a full time playing gig, taught at a prestigious conservatory, or even know what the ICA is.
B
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-08 17:49
bmcgar. I like to think of it in terms of "levels". Ricardo has brought his "level" to a point where everyone that hears him in an audition wants him!
Chris
Post Edited (2008-02-08 17:53)
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2008-02-08 18:14
If you like to think in terms of levels (which I think is somewhat absurd) at least expand your horizons. Just think of the number of players who haven't been competing for those jobs...like, woah, hold on a minute...those NOT in the USA. There's always someone better...even than Mr. Morales.
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Author: Clarinet
Date: 2008-02-08 18:22
I think it's important to remember that while Ricardo is certainly sounding great, he has NOT won Chicago. He is currently the only one who has already auditioned that has been considered qualified for the job, but there are still two other extremely great musicians and clarinetists that haven't played yet- Mike Rusinek and Anthony McGill. The audition isn't over, Ricardo hasn't won. And quite frankly, the CSO would be stupid to rule out Rusinek and McGill without giving at least one of them a trial week, along with Ricardo, because who knows if Ricardo would leave Philly and Juilliard for the CSO. He's probably using this audition as a negotiating tactic for his contract with Philly. Saying he won is just spreading incorrect information.
Post Edited (2008-02-08 18:23)
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-08 18:28
You are missing my point Mr. Clarinet
Chris
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-02-08 18:29
I really think that you have to look at whether a player also will fit in with the stlye of playing of a given orchestra. Chicago is an orchestra with a strong Germanic tradition and I believe sometimes clarinet players are required to play on German system clarinets...in sum a player must also be able to work along side the way players in given group play and sound. Ricardo is indeed fine but I believe there is alot more to this than just being the best...a player sometimes has to work within the traditions of an ensemble..and Chicago has a huge tradition.
David Dow
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Author: Clarinet
Date: 2008-02-08 18:35
I understand your point, Chris22311, but I just wanted to clear up any confusion over the CSO job. I admit that Ricardo sounds great, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that he's the best. That's an opinion, not a fact. Winning orchestra jobs doesn't mean he's the best, it means he may be the best fit for the given orchestra.
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-08 18:36
To win Philly and Chicago back to back shows a versatile style? Bonade moved around all the major orchestras. *not sure why?* I believe we are witnessing the beginning of the Morales era.
Chris
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-02-08 18:56
As long as we're discussing an absurd statement, let me offer an bit of absurd logic:
Some pros are amazing but cannot survive without a steady gig. Others tour the world because of their transcedant performances. One could be interpreted as better than the other.
So wouldn't Frost, Sabine, even Stolzman be "better" than those with steady symphony jobs?
James
PS. The answer is: of course not.
PSS. Just as illogical to hail Ricardo as the end-all-be-all top tier!
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-08 19:09
You haven't heard him close up then.
Written only partly in jest as yes, this is an absurd thread.
There was only one Heifetz, there's only one Ricardo.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-02-08 19:14)
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-02-08 19:24
Ricardo Morales may be the "best" clarinet player out there, in the estimation of clarinet players with more discerning ears than mine.
But however good a player he may be, and however much he may be appreciated by other clarinet players, I don't see him as an important musician in the broader sense of the term. Which present-day players (in the classical tradition) will go down in history? Only one, I suggest: Martin Fröst. He will be remembered as Stadler, Mühlfeld, and Goodman are remembered, as players who changed the way composers wrote for the clarinet.
And if you think Martin Fröst's playing is "ridiculous", listen to him playing Schumann.
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Author: Cass Tech
Date: 2008-02-08 19:36
David:
Since I've only heard Morales on the Met Parsifal recording (if that is him), my mouth is watering to get the chance to hear him here (because I live in Chicago); nevertheless, in addition to Heifitz there is also Szeryng, Oistrakh, Rabin, not to mention Joachim and Paganini. In my humble opinion, there's rarely ever just one that tops them all.
Cass Tech (aka leatherliip)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-08 19:46
Every top player has their own distinctive qualities, every top player has a certain quality that every other top player may not have, and most qualities each top player has can balance out with each other top player, and every listener is listening for a quality that they like in a top player, and every listener will like a certain top player over others for the qualities of that specific top player that appeal to them.
In short, it's each to their own, not one size fits all.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-02-08 19:46)
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Author: Blake Arrington
Date: 2008-02-08 19:52
You have to remember that you can't just say Frost will go down in history. For a lot of people...me included, there is something about his sound that doesn't do it for me. Sorry...just the way it is. Each person has personal likes and dislikes about every clarinetist out there...I agree with an earlier post that said that it's way to early to put any of these players in the history books as the greatest...there is no Tiger Woods in the clarinet world...some that are close...but no one as dominant that you could instantly say, he's the best.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-02-08 20:13
Blake, that is probably the best reason why this is an absurd thread!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2008-02-08 20:19
I don't like Frost's Schumann at all. That's my opinion.
But, I think we're living in a different world to the one Bonade lived in. As far as I know, his influence was through live performance and teaching, because that was almost the only way anyone heard him. Nowadays, you can hear almost any living soloist at the touch of a button. With the increasing accessibility of recordings which are often impossibly perfect, the power of a single player like Frost to influence the clarinet world is severely diminished.
I mean if the next generation of clarinettists all perform in roller skates, then I'll acknowledge his influence. But it seems to me, like a lot of really good clarinettists, he is just commissioning a lot of works and having works written for him.
As for Morales, I'm sure he will have some lasting influence on his students. But unlike Bonade's, Morales' students will have access to the entire world of clarinet playing and decide consciously, or unconsciously what they want to play like.
Post Edited (2008-02-08 20:37)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2008-02-08 20:25
What a ridiculous group of people this Board in general constitutes.
I'm getting on with my work. And I'll never go to a ClarinetFest. I wouldn't want to play for such an audience.
Tony
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-02-08 20:27
Chris22311 wrote:
> What has he won? Principal of the Met? Philly? and now Chicago?
Let's get a few facts straight.
The only thing that Ricardo Morales has won related to the CSO is to qualify with a majority vote from the audition committee. It would be a shame to have certain people on the clarinet bboard community try to bestow cult status upon anyone while playing fast and loose with the facts.
There are two finalists yet to hear on Feb. 18th and no candidate has yet been asked to play with the orchestra to determine whether their style fits within the ensemble. That is a time honored tradition spelled out in the CSO contract…most often used, rarely not.
The most important part is that Pierre Boulez has not expressed any opinion one way or another about anyone at all – Morales included. Boulez makes the final determination and has already been known to hold very strong opinions - during the last set of auditions for another principal position in the CSO going against the recommendation of many audition committee members.
NOTHING is yet determined.
> Ricardo has brought his "level" to a point
> where everyone that hears him in an audition wants him!
Another absurdly incorrect statement which is no where close to being true ...GBK
...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-08 21:31
Tony, this isn't the audience at a ClarFest........ If you play or if you don't, this thread, board shouldn't be what sways you either way. I know I'd sure love to hear you at one! Your Mozart recording to me set the new standard after Marcellus set the original one.
I'm wondering why the thread is about Ricardo's teaching influence. His teaching influence isn't his playing. Nobody will probably in Clarinet history have the teaching influence that Bonade did, yet from the recordings I have heard I like McLane's (sp) playing better.
Even the thread about Bliss - I wouldn't yet put him at all in the category of Pay. Could he get there? Possibly, Probably, but no guarantee as he's still a developing artist.
We all are I guess at one stage or another.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: srattle
Date: 2008-02-08 21:57
I'm not saying the Ricardo isn't an amazing clarinetist. He's definitely in the line of my favorite clarinetists in the world. He might even be the best american clarinetist. . .but what about other parts of the world. There are fantastic clarinetists all over the world, not just in America. . .
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-02-08 22:26
You know, I'm still trying to figure out why anyone responded to such an inane post.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-02-09 16:01
Ricardo is outstanding and Bonade did some good things for the clarinet.
But...Victoria Soames Samek (Clarinet Classics) has done more for the clarinet than all the rest combined!
Emma Johnson with her wide range of popular CDs has contributed too.
If you're not familar with Clarinet Classics, you might look into it.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-02-09 16:17
Hello Everyone,
Please get a copy of the Philadelphia School of Clarinet Playing by Shannon Thompson. It is her doctoral dissertation and the stories about some real clarinet legends are most interesting and well documented.
There is a link
http://www3.wcu.edu/~thompson/
IMHO, these are truly clarinet classics.
HRL
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2008-02-09 16:53
Children, children...
Stop whining, and go practice :-D
CA
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-02-09 17:07
"But...Victoria Soames Samek (Clarinet Classics) has done more for the clarinet than all the rest combined!
Emma Johnson with her wide range of popular CDs has contributed too..."
wow...
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-02-09 23:30
No one's whinng...this is not a bad thread. If you don't like it; you need not participate!
I'm going to check out Shannon's treatise on the Philadephia school of clarinet playing...I might learn something, but not likely as I already know everthing!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-09 23:42
Best or not best, I really admire what Ricardo is TRYING to achieve. His work ethic is incredible and I really hope to see his playing flourish and blossom in the next decade. As for all of you haters out there who seem to find this to be a "narrow" argument...
We all have different opinions. Now let that saltiness go!
Chris
Post Edited (2008-02-09 23:42)
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-09 23:45
GBK. Whether he wins Chicago or not... my point still stands. He is outstanding and it is very hard to see anyone turn him down!
Chris
Post Edited (2008-02-09 23:45)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2008-02-10 00:22
I listened to Ricardo's cd of French solos again this evening. It truly is remarkable clarinet playing in all ways, such that it's hard to imagine anything better.
However, how much of it would be appreciated by non-clarinetists? A friend of mine, a non-performing music lover for over 60 years, found the whole cd "boring", and only of interest to clarinetists. With my "just listener" hat on, I tend to agree about some of the selections, though I blame that at least in part on the pieces themselves - some of them are, well, "light".
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-02-10 00:29
Chris221311, what exactly is Ricardo trying to achieve?? I certainly haven't been influenced by him. Why is everyone so obsessed with who's the best? Nobody is the best in the world, at the end of the day it's about making music, understanding and transmitting a composers thoughts, enjoying it and sharing that with audiences. The player is but a vessel for the music he plays.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-10 00:31
What is he trying to achieve? The unachievable goal of perfection. He is driving with full force in his prime and he already has all the "medals" to settle down. He is a musical genius in my ears.
Chris
Post Edited (2008-02-10 00:32)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2008-02-10 00:39
I used to assign godlike status to some musicians - Horowitz, Heifetz, Michelangeli, Rachmaninoff, a few others. I felt they could do no wrong, and it colored my perception of their work.
Over the years that tendency has been replaced by something like, like, a deeper respect for performing. Great players indeed deserve all the respect and appreciation in the world, but for a number of things, not just talent. Things like their diligence, and generosity, and their spirited willingness to take on such difficult tasks so that other people can enjoy music to the fullest.
However, Morales and the other greats are still human beings, and their great achievements are in theory reachable and surpassable by many others. Why not start each day assuming you are one of those, and then work at it? Does anyone imagine those people ever thought any differently?
It sort of irks me when someone hears, say, the young Julian Bliss - a great performer - and says it makes them want to quit playing. He made me want to go practice nice legato tonguing in the Mozart rondo, and I have been. Tonight Morales' sweet, nuanced sound and magnifecently fast and fluid passage work is so vivid in my ears, it's opening my clarinet case for me.
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-10 00:42
Bravo Phillip. It truly is an inspiration to us young profesionals who separate ourselves from the amateurs of "compromising" goals. It is a vast ocean.
Chris
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-02-10 01:47
Well Chris2231, I'm certainly no amateur and to strive for perfection in what I do but really nobody is perfect. You can strive for whatever but people are fallible and do have off days, it's just part of the human condition. Do not be so blinkered, learn from everyone and anyone, professional or amateur and strive to perfecting your own voice. Surely you have something to say musically? Like Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Handel and all the other musical geniuses.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-02-10 02:14
I can't believe this thread is still open.
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-02-10 02:18
I find it interesting with all this talk about "modern bonade's" that Don Montanaro hasn't come up. I believe he comes closest to doing what Bonade did for the American Clarinet school. Like Bonade, many of his students have landed jobs in orchestras all throughout the US. Dallas, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, the Met.; all very prestigious and influential ensembles and centers of learning. His influence will continue for many years to come, as has Bonade's through his great pupils, Marcellus and Gigliotti.
To be perfectly honest, I don't care for Morales' playing. The clarinetist I admire most is Harold Wright; in my opinion, no one played more beautifully then he did. And I am sure many of you have similar opinions for your favorite clarinetist =).
Only time will tell.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-10 02:20
"Chris221311, what exactly is Ricardo trying to achieve?? "
--------------------------------------------
We can speculate all we want about what he is trying to achieve, but that would be completely pointless........
He is not a player who loves how he plays. There's always something better which can be done, and it's that level of humility/integrity and talent which makes him what he is.
He's not out to "prove anything".
Really nice guy too.
Montanaro has some of the most talented students to work with already as they are at CURTIS. Of course they will land major jobs......
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-02-10 02:25)
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-02-10 02:41
And there is a reason why these clarinetists choose Curtis - to study with Montanaro. The same reason why somebody would choose New England to study with Stoltzman or DePaul for Larry Combs. I am just comparing Montanaro's success in teaching with Bonade's. Bonade taught at Curtis for a little while himself. If you don't care for Montanaro it's fine, I respect your opinion. But I think it takes somebody special to turn raw talent into a true artist.
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2008-02-10 05:17
you don't choose curtis, curtis chooses you, if you're good, and really lucky.
you don't just waltz in there because you want to study with Montanaro, its not like Peabody or something.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-02-10 09:57
Thank you Mr Blumberg.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-02-10 14:21
Quote:
you don't choose curtis, curtis chooses you, if you're good, and really lucky
I wasn't aware Curtis had an active recruiting presence? No, you choose to audition there. And if you are accepted into the school of music you choose to go there over your other choices.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-02-10 14:31
"And there is a reason why these clarinetists choose Curtis - to study with Montanaro."
That is just not true for the majority of students. Curtis offers benefits that no other SCHOOL can. The competition to get in is unbelievable and anyone who does almost invariably ends up going there. Furthermore, I think you would find it difficult to assign one particular quality to his teaching that would give credence to your belief that it takes someone special to turn a raw talent into a true artist.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-02-10 15:35
This thread reminds me of my jury services...11 other people who think they're as smart as me. Impossible!
For the record I think Emma and Sabine put Ricardo in the shade.
Curtis is OK, but Indiana U. is doing great work!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-02-10 15:38
I think you are missing my point. Clarinetists choose to try to get into Curtis not because the free tuition, or the outstanding talent there (there is still a lot of talent in many conservatories in the US), but they choose to audition and try to make it there to study with Montanaro and his school of playing. My point being is that you would not go to Curtis to sound like Ricardo - you would go to Julliard or Boyer College of Music and study with him. If you wanted to sound like Tom Martin, you'd go to New England. You go where you'd like to sound.
I understand what you are saying that he has some of the best talent and young players to work with; I won't deny that. But just because of this, do you think it is really reasonable to say "oh, well of course they will get a job because they go to Curtis"? I don't think so. Look at Ricardo, he didn't go to Curtis. Neither did Larry Combs, Tom Martin, Stanley Drucker, Franklin Cohen, Robert Marcellus, ect. There are many great clarinetists that came from outside of Curtis.
And a response to Montanaro's teaching - All of his great students have a way of playing in which the tone is produced. Of course I have never studied with him so knowing exactly how he teaches and what he teaches is impossible for me to do. But all his students play in a way of controlling of the tone, no note lesser in quality than the one before or after, every note from low E to double high C the same quality from Pianissimo to Fortissimo, this is what he teaches.
Sorry for the essay =). That is my opinion, agree or disagree.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-02-10 15:43
Keith P wrote:
> I think you are missing my point. Clarinetists choose to try
> to get into Curtis not because the free tuition, or the
> outstanding talent there (there is still a lot of talent in
> many conservatories in the US), but they choose to audition and
> try to make it there to study with Montanaro and his school of
> playing.
Oh, some really do care about the free tuition more than Montanaro.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-10 15:59
Students audition for Curtis as it is one of the top 2 or 3 music schools on the planet. Their Orchestra makes most other music school orchestras sound bad. It's not a school which will "take your money" like most others now a days do. To make it you are basically winning an Orchestral audition already and go on full scholarship. Name another music school on earth where all of it's students go on full scholarship.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-02-10 16:15
I'm sure there is one in China =p.
I understand where you are coming from. But I still believe Montanaro is more important than tuition.
Agree to disagree?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-02-10 16:19
Old Geezer wrote:
> Curtis is OK, but Indiana U. is doing great work
Indiana University's Jacob School of Music (named after after a $40.6 million dollar gift from David Jacobs two years ago) just got another $44 million from the Lilly Endowment.
Along with recent faculty hirings (Joshua Bell, Leonard Slatkin, Andre Watts) a new music building, with addition rehearsal, studio and teaching space will be completed by 2010.
...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-10 16:23
Venezuela too. They have an awesome system there for music.
At Curtis there is more than the Clarinet lessons which make their students so good, it's the ensemble training such as Orchestra and the level of the other students who are there also. The private teacher is always very, very important, but the other factors also make the player great. I chose to not audition for Curtis as I really wanted to study with the teacher over the student (Gigliotti instead of Montanaro). I did take a handful of lessons with Montanaro and he is quite good - big on not playing with a spread sound.
That's a concept which seemed to be foreign to Gigliotti whom I studied with for 7 years.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-02-10 17:03
Ah, ok - sorry, I stand corrected.
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Author: dallask622
Date: 2008-02-10 17:15
For the record, Robert Marcellus did NOT go to Curtis.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-02-10 17:53
Although it's against my better judgement contributing to a kind of bizarre thread like this one - here's something of interest:
dallask622 (Hi Greg...) said: "For the record, Robert Marcellus did NOT go to Curtis."
------------------------------------------
That's because Stanley Drucker was chosen instead of Robert Marcellus that one year they both auditioned...
Gregory Smith
http://gregory-smith.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2008-02-10 17:58
"it's against my better judgement contributing to a kind of bizarre thread like this"
heh
it's against MY better judegement READING a thread like this....
dn
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Author: dallask622
Date: 2008-02-10 17:58
Hi Greg,
That's correct! Quite a choice that year! It certainly didn't hurt Marcellus' career though.(: I was only setting the facts straight. I too, generally stay out of these bizarre threads as well!!
Post Edited (2008-02-10 17:59)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-02-10 18:03
"I understand what you are saying that he has some of the best talent and young players to work with; I won't deny that. But just because of this, do you think it is really reasonable to say "oh, well of course they will get a job because they go to Curtis"? I don't think so."
Actually, at one time this was the way the school was viewed. It was just assumed that a clarinet player going to Curtis would win a job. This hasn't really panned out much in recent years, but for a while this was the thinking.
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-10 19:19
I am not a big fan of Montanaro at all. Put Yehuda Gilad at Curtis and you'll have a handful of Burt Haras running around America. Put Montanaro at USC and you got a different situation. Mike Rusinek had a reputation of not approving of Montanaro's teaching and he obviously walked his own path. Many of M's students have that philly style of playing but only think about that style as suppose to having a more open mind to music.
Chris
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-02-10 19:36
This thread is as silly as if I would start a thread "Can't hide the facts... Leister is the worst/most boring today!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-02-10 22:12
Can't hide the facts.....I am the least famous, most mediocre today! And most other days!
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-02-10 23:04
Tony Pay says;
"What a ridiculous group of people this Board in general constitutes.
I'm getting on with my work. And I'll never go to a ClarinetFest. I wouldn't want to play for such an audience."
Aw, Tony, Tony, aren't you a member of this ridiculous group?
Who asked you to go to a ClarinetFest? Who asked you to play?
Try to be nice, we're all friends here!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Francois Kloc
Date: 2008-02-11 00:26
Hi everyone,
I was trying to stay out of this thread but I just can't even thought as Greg said it is a strange one.
How can someone just compair one player vs another player is just crazy. Please little bit of respect for everyone who contributed to the clarinet in this country. You need Bonade, Montanaro, Drucker, Morales, Smith, Raden, Rusineck, Bloom, Nuccio, Mondie, Combs, Mayer, Manasse, Yehuda, Cohen, Martin, Hawley, Hara, Zukowski to have schools and style of playing(no one talks about Cahuzac, Arrignon, Cuper, Paul Meyer, Deplus, Lancelot, Moragues, Guyot, lafferiere, Baldeyrou, Saoite) and the list is long (I apologize to the one I did not mentionned)who have greatly contributed.
How many europeans came to the audition? None. All of these players are unique, different but all of them touches you in different ways. Music is not baseball, football or soccer (football in europe) there is no one best, or the "star" that all teams need to win. Last time I checked you still need to have 4 clarinet players in a section and there is a lot of other musicians to play with. Chicago will sound like Chicago no matter what. You will just have eras to remember like when Reiner, Solti or Barenboim conducted for Chicago, Ormandy for Philly, Bernstein for NY, Mutti for la Scala. The beauty of an orchestra is its ability to adjust to a style. This is what all the other players who "lost" do all year around. Lets respect that and please not just rank them on one day. May be Stanley was off that day David but he was right on a lot of other days during his now almost 60 years tenure with the NY Phil. That's what music and performance is all about, taking risks, be off one day, play beautifuly the next but still recognize that there is someone outhere that might perform better or should I say differently.
Before critizing or putting someone else down let's make sure we could do he or her job day in and day out first.
Let's also be thanksfull that you have different schools of playing and different sounding orchestras in this country.
Sorry for the long post,
Respectfully,
Francois Kloc
President & CEO
Buffet Crampon USA, Inc.
Post Edited (2008-02-11 02:32)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-11 01:04
You're right Francois, I edited the post. It was to show that even someone with legendary technique such as Drucker can be "human".
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-02-11 06:41
Re Francois, "before we criticize we should be able to do this job day in and day out"..... I don't think so. As listeners we can listen to a musician and give an opinion. If I think a violinist is out of tune.....you can't come back at me and say....OK John let's hear you play it in tune! It is inconsequential whether I can play it better or not. This thread is not so trivial. It deals with the how we perceive elite clarinetists and try to articulate what makes something great or greater. It's pretty hard to divorce oneself from the American culture.....American Idol, Superbowl, Grammy Awards etc. We need Tiger Woods to fuel our appetite for role models. People use the role models differently...some are inspired, some are unmotivated but just stand in awe, some are discouraged, and some just don't care. Life isn't just one big competition but comparison is not so unhealthy. However I would suggest spending a lot of time practicing and a small amount of time comparing.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-02-11 06:50
This should have been posted on 1 April, and then we could have written it off as an April Fool
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-02-11 10:26
Y'know, this is kinda interesting cos it highlights something I hadn't experienced till I found this site: cults of personality in the clarinet world. For me, there's always just been good playing and poor playing, good equipment and poor equipment - I've never hooked it on to particular Names in the way I see sometimes hereabouts. I guess it's cos my teacher never said 'go listen to x and play like that' - I've had to learn it from scratch.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-02-11 12:35
I so enjoy anytime Tony Pay posts anything! There is a player that can really play the clarinet, any clarinet any type of reed and make it sing. He can take a clarinet that has less keys than a recorder, some period whale bone mouthpiece, make a reed that will work on it, and make some serious music!
In an interview about Fred Astaire, Ginger Rodgers said, " Fred was an amazing dancer, but people seem to forget everything he did, I did backwards AND in Heels" That describes how Tony Pay plays the clarinet!
Why U.S clarinet playing is such a "mono theistic" religion is beyond me.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Atonement , and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2008-02-11 13:11
Could this be the winner of the "Most Posts on an Irrelevant Topic" prize?
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-02-11 13:19
Is this just a shift from Ricardo to Tony? In any case they are both idols. I'm not a Tony fan as I find his writings to be eloquent but shifting in logic to suit his point, in addition to being unnecessarily complex. In any case people seem bent on artificially constructing lists. Witness Dave Letterman's top 10 list. People are compulsive list makers. I know it is heresy but extending it to music was only a matter of time.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Mike Johnson
Date: 2008-02-11 22:28
I love the clarinet and I love playing the clarinet, but this thread clearly demonstrates 1.) why clarinet players are often regarded as anal/irritating and 2.) everything wrong with the clarinet world. Have respect for different styles and techniques, but above all, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
Mike Johnson
Napa, California
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-11 22:45
Blimey! Is this thread STILL up and running? Talk about flogging a dead horse!
Chris22311, what have you gained from this?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-02-11 23:49
Chris P wrote:
> Talk about flogging a dead horse!
>
> Chris22311, what have you gained from this?
>
sakura niku
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-02-11 23:57
Chris P wrote:
> Talk about flogging a dead horse!
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The Clarinet Pages
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