 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-02-06 02:31
I was at a pawn shop a while back and noticed an old Albert system Buffet. The original price tag on it was over $300, but that was scratched out and no new price written in. I'm guessing that's because it's cracked . . . pretty badly. The barrel and bell are both cracked pretty much all the way down, and the upper joint has a crack coming down from the top.
I went back today and it was still there and still no new price. Now, I have a thing for vintage/antique instruments and I think and Albert system clarinet would be neat to own (although not play on a regular basis). I'm kind of toying with the idea of offering $10 for it (because, really it is pretty much unplayable right now or probably ever) and maybe seeing if I can do a DIY crack fix. I can get my hands on some really good epoxy and if I could get it for dirt cheap, what would it hurt?
It looks along the same lines as the Buffets on this page:
http://www.geocities.com/silverleafjb/photos.htm
I saw a Buffet logo on the lower joint and it looked like it might have said Crampton (hard to make out so I could be wrong on that). On the back of the lower joint it said "LP" (low pitch) and "B" and there were a couple places where it said either "Paris" or "France". It looks like the original case and mouthpiece (which is also made of wood). The wood is very brown so I'm guessing it's dry as a bone so just oiling it might help seal up the cracks a little. It also has pads falling off and missing most of the cork.
So, you think it's even worth $10? Or is it actually worth more than that even though it's cracked?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-02-06 15:55
I would say it depends on the crack in the upper joint. That would affect the tone the most. Barrels and bells are easily replaced with modern equivalents.
$10 would be great...I'd probably pay up to $50.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-02-08 23:35
Attachment: albert01.jpg (69k)
Attachment: albert02.jpg (72k)
Attachment: albert03.jpg (94k)
Attachment: albert04.jpg (73k)
Attachment: albert05.jpg (75k)
Well, if anyone's interested, I went back to the pawn shop today. The scratched out price was $325. I asked how much they wanted for it, they checked their computer and it wasn't even listed in their inventory and none of them even knew they had it. I got it for $20.
My memory was a little incorrect as to the markings and cracks.
*The top of the bell says France (the crack on the bell is about 1 1/2" coming up from the bottom and both rings are loose).
*The lower joint says B LP on the bottom front and it's the one with a crack which is about 1" and runs down next to the Bb/F tone hole. The tenon ring is loose but there is still cork on the bottom tenon (it's pretty smooth & shiny, though)
*The upper joint is crack-free as far as I can tell. It also says B LP on the front just below the register tone hole. The bottom tenon cork is wrapped with string and the top does have cork but it's pretty worn.
*The barrel has no markings, both rings are loose, and the crack runs the entire length.
The mouthpiece (which is also wood) is the part that says Buffet Crampton Paris. No major chips or cracks.
There is no serial number anywhere on this instrument. The whole thing has a very pretty deep reddish brown color, but I'm guessing that's because it's bone dry and it will probably turn black once I soak it in oil.
So, anyone have a guess as to what exactly it is?
I'm assuming that it's a Buffet because the mouthpiece says Buffet and it looks original to the instrument and the "B" stamped above the "LP" stands for Buffet.
Any bets as to whether I can get it playable again or not?
Post Edited (2008-02-08 23:38)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2008-02-09 11:33
Well, it says Buffet. I don't believe the cracks will present any big problem for superglue. Looks like an interesting restoration project.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-02-09 12:34
1. The "B" stands for "Bb" not for Buffet.
2. The cracks look to my untrained eye to be repairable.
3. It may NOT be a Buffet. It may just be a Buffet mouthpiece.
4. If the mouthpiece is wood (as it appears to be), you may need to swap your normal 'piece out. Wood mps are incredibly variable. I have one on a C Albert horn and I enjoy playing on it. One hint: you may want to soak the MP in addition to the reed. Can't remember where I picked that hint up (here?) but it does seem to help with the way the reed and MY wood mp interact.
5. Looks like a big but doable project. Have fun!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-02-09 19:57
Would the fact that the tenon rings are exactly the same as on my E-S buffet mean anything? Or are tenon rings genrally mass produced and used by several different makers?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-02-13 04:07
Attachment: albert09.jpg (124k)
If anyone's interested in my progress, I've scraped off the cork as best as I could (will try to get more off later). I've gotten all the keys pulled off and I'm getting ready to soak it in oil. You can see some of the pretty red color that the wood has right now, but I'm guessing that's partly because it's so dry and it will get a lot darker after it soaks. I'm also hoping that oil will help the wood expand and seal up the crack on the lower joint. I'll probably let it soak a couple of weeks and in the mean time start polishing up the keys and see what spare pads I have that fit and what I'll need to order.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-02-13 04:42
Hmmm . . . kind of a catch 22 because if just getting some oil in the wood will close the cracks up, I'd rather not have to go to the trouble of using glue. But if it doesn't then they do need to be glued and the oil will make that kind impossible.
The crack on the bell, I'm not too worried about because it shouldn't affect anything. The barrel crack is pretty bad and I have a feeling I'm going to eventually just have to replace the barrel anyway. The one on the lower joint is the only one I'm really worried about (kind of hard to replace a whole lower joint - especially since I have no idea what brand this clarinet is). But that crack is also the smallest of them all. So I'm kind of torn about what to do. A while back, I found a small crack on my bass clarinet. I sent it in to get checked out and for the whole instrument to get an overhaul. After an oil bath the crack completely disappeared and I can't even tell where it was. That's what I'm really hoping for in this case.
EDIT: I decided to go ahead and glue the lower joint crack. I watered down some wood glue and used a syringe with a tiny needle to inject it into the crack. I think I got the whole crack glued pretty well so I'll let it dry the rest of the day and start it soaking in oil tomorrow.
Post Edited (2008-02-13 17:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-02-15 06:33
Okay, so I've been doing some looking around and really scrutinizing pictures of albert system clarinets, and I think I may actually be getting somewhere with trying to figure out what I have.
On that page I posted before with pics of different alberts, I noticed that the extra little pad cup attached to the F# ring is below the ring on those Buffets but it's above the ring (behind the A key) on mine so it's not as similar to those Buffets as I initially thought.
I did some more looking around paying special attention to that pad cup and noticed that on most of the alberts I was finding, it's below that ring, but a little further up on that page, there's a picture labeled "Left: A Henry Gunkel, Paris with "boot" case.". That instrument has a stamp that mine doesn't, but it's got that pad cup behind the A key. Also, the thumb rest (broken on the one in the pic) looks like mine (with 3 little screws & a scalloped mounting part).
From there I did a search for Gunckel (found out it was misspelled on the page) alberts and came across one on an auction site. It has a stamp and no key rollers, but it's got that same pad cup behind the A key and the case with it looks a lot like mine (with a little mounting thingie in the lid for the lyre) and the same single-screw ligature that mine came with.
So, while I do some more looking around, does anyone happen to know anything about Gunckel clarinets?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-02-20 16:54
Attachment: albert10.jpg (22k)
Attachment: albert11.jpg (97k)
Attachment: albert12.jpg (104k)
I don't know how interested anyone really is in all this, but here's another update. I pulled the parts out of the oil bath. There is barely even a hint of the red color that the wood had before which is kind of a testament to how dry the wood was. Compare these two pics:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,1357/albert09.jpg
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,1366/albert11.jpg
I got all the keys polished up and noticed that most of them have "VII" scratched into the underside. Does anyone know what that could stand for? Year (1907) maybe?
I do have to order a couple more pads (I had enough extra pads from other projects laying around to do the whole instrument minus 2), glue the loose tenon rings back on, cork the joints, and do some adjustments. All the cracks that it had are still obvious, but I figure that on the rare occasion that I do play it, I can always use my Buffet barel and the bell crack won't affect anything. I won't know how well my glue worked on the lower joint crack until I can give it a test play.
And I'm still pretty convinced it's a Gunckel. Here's a pic of one I found that was recently up for auction:
http://i13.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/d9/7a/4cd2_3.JPG
http://i8.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/d9/7a/4c0e_12.JPG
It doesn't have the rollers on the pinkie keys, but it's got the same key setup, the same case, same lyre, same ligature, and (what I just recently noticed) the same small black dots on some of the keys.
Also, I've found out that Gunckel was a tradename for Buffet so that could explain the Buffet mouthpiece.
Post Edited (2008-02-20 17:01)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
