 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Michael Kincaid
Date: 2000-08-14 23:10
I'm listening to the Acker Bilk CD that came today.
He certainly has a different tone than I'm use to
hearing. He must be an interesting man
to have made it to recording status; I'd be interested
in reading about his career. On some of the tunes it sounds
like an alto sax. I haven't heard anything that is
technically difficult yet--all pop songs (of course I
only have this one CD.) I'll have to see if his style
grows on me. I can listen to Eddie Daniels or Robert Spring
over and over--I don't know about Mr. Bilk yet. Michael
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Author: Bob Gardner
Date: 2000-08-14 23:49
All i know is that he has been around for a long time. he wrote Stangers on the Shore in 1961.
I agree with your comments 100%. I would still like to play and sound like him. I don't believe that he is the greatest Clarinet player of all times. i know that i will never be able to play like Daniels, Fountain, Goodman and the rest. Bilk maybe.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2000-08-15 00:31
People seem confuse difficulty with "good" for music - particularly common in Jazz and Classical players. Expression, soul, whatever has little to do with difficulty. I get annoyed at people who think their style of music is the best. I hold the view that bad music makes you want go out and take drugs, kill Jews or do evil things.
Lets face it, country and western is really lousy classical music, its low brow and unintellectual.
On the other hand classical music is really lousy country and western music. Its snobbish and doesn't speak of the common man's experience of life and love.
Acker Bilk must express something meaningful or beautiful for a number of people, it does not mean that he is a great jazz musician or classical musician. Maybe the clarinet needs more pop players, to make it popular again anyhow.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-08-15 00:43
The "Stranger on the Shore" song was a pop chart hit when I was in my early teens. I liked the song, but I never realized Acker Bilk played the clarinet. I thought the instrument was a soprano sax. My bedroom radio where I did most of my pop music listening was one of those little white plastic toaster boxes, the kind with the speaker behind the front grill. After reading these threads about Bilk, I'm curious to hear how he sounds on a real sound system.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-08-15 00:52
Lelia wrote:
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After reading these threads about Bilk, I'm curious to hear how he sounds on a real sound system.
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About the same. When I get sounds2you.com live again I'll play a couple by Bilk.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-08-15 01:09
Acker Bilk is to clarinet as Herb Alpert is to trumpet. He had a unique style that appealed to a lot of people who paid money to listen. Every fashion oriented business (clothing, auto, haircuts, pop music, etc) knows the financial reward of "different" vs. "quality." Nuff said!!!!
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Author: Chris Ondaatje
Date: 2000-08-15 06:21
You people are generous,open and kind. I realise I am a musical snob of the worst kind. But when I hear Mr Bilk playing I feel a bit of nausea. I'm sorry but I can't help it. That sound feels like its scraping the enamel off my teeth.I don't want to kill ethnic groups or hurt puppies(as suggested by one the other replies) but I feel that what Mr Bilk expresses is best left unsaid.
I apologise in advance for hurting any feelings.
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-08-15 06:42
I never could stand the guy's playing, but his sound production is very much in the New Orleans tradition. In the days before microphones, jazz clarinets tended to be pretty raucous, and that tradition has been hard to shake.
I think that the public likes a reedy sound, even if the vibrato is a little thick. Look at the reaction to sax players like Ben Webster, Illinois Jacquet, Jimmy Forrest and King Curtis. These are not pretty players (although they were fabulous musicians), but I've seen critics use words like 'sensuous' and in one case 'venereal.' Look at Clarence Clemons' appeal.
The fact that the guy plays simple, understandable melodies also separates him from much of his competition. Can you say Kenny G? Benny G. had a similar story. With all his skills, his greatest was playing so that the audience could follow him.
I can't stand his sound, and I would hate for students to imitate that aspect, but let's be grateful for the Acker Bilks, Boots Randolphs, Herb Alperts, Danny Davis's and Kenny G's that keep band instruments alive with the masses.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2000-08-15 07:10
Yes I am for real, and I'm actually a real nasty mean person. But, I simply cannot view music as good or bad. This just makes no sense to me. My own taste is eclectic to the extreme and has no intellectual excuse, I likes what I likes. I find other peoples music icky. Even Aker. But if he means something to someone else I think enjoying music is good in and of itself, like finding love in a cruel world. Why would you deny someone this joy, and say his love is less than your love?
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-08-15 10:52
He has been around for a long time. Acker Bilk comes out of the British Traditional (New Orleans) Jazz and skiffle (folk) revival of the 1950s. Many clarinetists were much influenced by the playing style of George Lewis, who made a couple of European tours around that time. The most authentic of the bands back then was Ken Colyer's jazz band (Colyer spent a lot of time in New Orleans) and the most popular was Chris Barber's. Actually, the movement produced some terrific clarinetists, including Terry Lightfoot, Sandy Brown, Monty Sunshine and Sid Phillips, who was more in the mainstream dance band tradition. I bought my first clarinet, a Boosey & Hawkes 1010 if I remember correctly, from a member of Phillips' band. I think, but am not sure, that Bilk first came to public attention with Barber's Band. Of course, the traditional jazz scene lost ground in the 1960s and Bilk was one of the few who successfully made the cross-over into pop music. Barber changed his style and kept going also.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-08-15 15:09
Chris Ondaatje wrote:
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I apologise in advance for hurting any feelings.
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Ah yes. In my former days we'd call that a pre-guilt payment.
AKA a bribe :^)
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2000-08-15 17:19
beejay's got it right! Bilk's influence was George Lewis, but also Sidney Bechet. Remember, kids (anyone under 50), New Orleans Jazz was made without sound systems, much of it outdoors, and heavy vibrato was part of the projection process in bands where a clarinet had to balance trumpet lead and trombone smear in power. I heard the Bunk Johnson Band with George Lewis in NYC in 1944, many times, and, while I dig Eddie Daniels, Bill Smith and Buddy DeFranco, none of them could have matched Lewis for raw emotional power and absolutely searing lyricism in the context of that sinewy ACOUSTIC music. Probably the only clarinetist today who could is Kenny Davern. Even Kenny's former musical partner Bob Wilber relies much on "mike", and there is othing wrong with that. But those "old guys" could really play, and it's to the credit of that marvelous group of British trad clarinetists that they recognized that, nd made a lot of great music in that tradition.beejay wrote:-------------------------------He has been around for a long time. Acker Bilk comes out of the British Traditional (New Orleans) Jazz and skiffle (folk) revival of the 1950s. Many clarinetists were much influenced by the playing style of George Lewis, who made a couple of European tours around that time. The most authentic of the bands back then was Ken Colyer's jazz band (Colyer spent a lot of time in New Orleans) and the most popular was Chris Barber's. Actually, the movement produced some terrific clarinetists, including Terry Lightfoot, Sandy Brown, Monty Sunshine and Sid Phillips, who was more in the mainstream dance band tradition. I bought my first clarinet, a Boosey & Hawkes 1010 if I remember correctly, from a member of Phillips' band. I think, but am not sure, that Bilk first came to public attention with Barber's Band. Of course, the traditional jazz scene lost ground in the 1960s and Bilk was one of the few who successfully made the cross-over into pop music. Barber changed his style and kept going also. beejay wrote:-------------------------------He has been around for a long time. Acker Bilk comes out of the British Traditional (New Orleans) Jazz and skiffle (folk) revival of the 1950s. Many clarinetists were much influenced by the playing style of George Lewis, who made a couple of European tours around that time. The most authentic of the bands back then was Ken Colyer's jazz band (Colyer spent a lot of time in New Orleans) and the most popular was Chris Barber's. Actually, the movement produced some terrific clarinetists, including Terry Lightfoot, Sandy Brown, Monty Sunshine and Sid Phillips, who was more in the mainstream dance band tradition. I bought my first clarinet, a Boosey & Hawkes 1010 if I remember correctly, from a member of Phillips' band. I think, but am not sure, that Bilk first came to public attention with Barber's Band. Of course, the traditional jazz scene lost ground in the 1960s and Bilk was one of the few who successfully made the cross-over into pop music. Barber changed his style and kept going also.
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Author: Michael Kincaid
Date: 2000-08-15 19:18
I enjoyed reading all the comments about Acker Bilk.
I now understand where his background comes from, but
honestly I don't like the sound; he seems to slide
into most of the notes and the vibrato is just too much for me. One listening through on the CD is about all I can take.
Michael
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2000-08-15 20:19
Micxhael - Try some CDs by Kenny Davern on Arbors label - he is much inspired by the New Orleans tradition but is a REAL clarinet player with a beautiful tone -- there is even a CD with strings, which is lovely.Michael Kincaid wrote:-------------------------------I enjoyed reading all the comments about Acker Bilk.I now understand where his background comes from, buthonestly I don't like the sound; he seems to slide into most of the notes and the vibrato is just too much for me. One listening through on the CD is about all I can take.Michael
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Author: Michael Kincaid
Date: 2000-08-16 00:11
Bob Sparkman wrote:
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Michael - Try some CDs by Kenny Davern on Arbors label - he is much inspired by the New Orleans tradition but is a REAL clarinet player with a beautiful tone...
Bob, I'll look into getting something by Kenny Davern (I've seen his name around) thanks. Michael
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Author: ken
Date: 2000-08-17 05:08
With all this balloon juice spewing about traditional jazz clarinet and Hacker Bilk has anyone heard of JACK MAHEU??? He is the defining trad/Dixieland player of the last 40 years for Christ sake!!
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2000-08-17 06:13
I have been reading most of this stuff re Acker. He was one of my first influences, but then I discovered the 'originals', no slighting Acker but I like to know the source of inspiration - New Orleans of course!
They played like that you know - 'sliding in to notes' and 'vibrato'- nothing wrong with that really, it's just another style of clarinet playing. We all play, more or less, differently to each other and I hold with the theory that 'classical' or 'legit'is one way of expressing your musical ideas and jazz is another......and so on for all of the other styles of playing our instrument - I happen to like them all - but prefer jazz, New Orleans jazz in particular.
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2000-08-17 06:16
Sorry, no I have not. Is he an Australian?
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2000-08-17 10:10
No John, he's American, out of Rochester,NY, I believe. Played with the Salt City Six and worked at Eddie Condon's in NYC in the '70s. Last heard he was in Florida. Very nice player, but no comparison to Kenny Davern or Bob Wilber. John Kelly - Australia wrote:-------------------------------Sorry, no I have not. Is he an Australian?
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Author: ken
Date: 2000-08-17 13:45
Bob, if you're referring to "Jack Maheu" in your response, yes, he originally hails from NYC, but earned his fame in the early 50's & 60's in the Chicago Dixieland circuit playing with band leader Allan Kay at the famed Loop, Palmer House night club. He later united with the Asanto Brothers, Dukes of Dixieland in 1960 where he was their axe man until 1970 when the lead trumpet player, Freddie Asanto suddenly died in a car crash; there were personnel changes from there. He is 92, alive today, retired but still does cameos in N.O and L.A on occasion. Who you prefer personally as a player/musician is strictly your business, however, you really shouldn't make broad, sweeping statements as facts, of who is better than who. I blow swing jazz/dixieland for a living and he undisputedly has been my biggest influence the past 25 years above all others. Nobody I've heard in the trad setting plays more fluently, harmonicaly, with better technique and has more overall chops than him. As a player, that's my ear and experience and I'll stick by it.
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2000-08-18 10:13
Hi Ken - I certainly apologize for any slight of Jack Mahue. I love and admire more players than otherwise, and mastery of jazz clarinet puts Jack in a very special category of musical achievement. I stand corrected and will dig out those records of his that I have and revise my perspective. Thanks very much. ken wrote:-------------------------------Bob, if you're referring to "Jack Maheu" in your response, yes, he originally hails from NYC, but earned his fame in the early 50's & 60's in the Chicago Dixieland circuit playing with band leader Allan Kay at the famed Loop, Palmer House night club. He later united with the Asanto Brothers, Dukes of Dixieland in 1960 where he was their axe man until 1970 when the lead trumpet player, Freddie Asanto suddenly died in a car crash; there were personnel changes from there. He is 92, alive today, retired but still does cameos in N.O and L.A on occasion. Who you prefer personally as a player/musician is strictly your business, however, you really shouldn't make broad, sweeping statements as facts, of who is better than who. I blow swing jazz/dixieland for a living and he undisputedly has been my biggest influence the past 25 years above all others. Nobody I've heard in the trad setting plays more fluently, harmonicaly, with better technique and has more overall chops than him. As a player, that's my ear and experience and I'll stick by it.
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2000-08-18 10:20
Hi Donn - Definitely NOT!!! That's the beauty of jazz clarinet - every player has his (or her) own sound and style. Now saxaphone - that's another matter. Hard to tell them apart these days!Donn wrote:-------------------------------Must we all sound alike?
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Author: ken
Date: 2000-08-18 23:38
No prob, Bob! I've read a number of your posts and you're a gentlemen and obviously extremely knowledgeable in the idiom, as well as a lifetime student and lover of our chosen instrument. It's interesting, everyone is alike in ONE aspect of personal muscial taste; we all listen to, play and mimmick to a degree WHO and WHAT naturally sounds good to us and pleasing to our ears. That concept is as individual as we are. As for me, I'm a very riff-oriented player and don't build my solos and improvise/create long phrases, that's the way Jack Maheu plays and he appeals to me. Art Bloom, on the other hand is a classic study in building purposeful solos, simple stating of melody to very complex, measure by phrase by chorus, a perfect "house of cards". When players reach that level of excellence like most mentioned in this thread, I believe one's not necessarily better than the other, just unique. After playing professionally for 24 years I've come to the conclusion any musical instrument if truly embraced and studied for the long haul is a "marriage" and a personal relationship and should be treated with respect. It's really only an inatimate object until we breathe life into it and make it sing. <:-)
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2000-08-19 04:36
Thanks Ken, and beautifully put. I guess we all put so much into this love of the clarinet and the jazz we try to play on it that we lose perspective sometimes. One of the best tributes to Jack Mahue, which you may know about, was made by trombonist Tom Artin on the liner notes of an album they made together, when he said something like Jack's notes were like a silk handkerchief as they flowed from his horn -- pretty nice way to put it! I think Pee Wee Irwin played trumpet on that LP, and I'm trying to find it among my stuff for a fresh listen. It was really superb, as I remember. I'll let you know if I find it! Thanks again. Best regards. ken wrote:-------------------------------No prob, Bob! I've read a number of your posts and you're a gentlemen and obviously extremely knowledgeable in the idiom, as well as a lifetime student and lover of our chosen instrument. It's interesting, everyone is alike in ONE aspect of personal muscial taste; we all listen to, play and mimmick to a degree WHO and WHAT naturally sounds good to us and pleasing to our ears. That concept is as individual as we are. As for me, I'm a very riff-oriented player and don't build my solos and improvise/create long phrases, that's the way Jack Maheu plays and he appeals to me. Art Bloom, on the other hand is a classic study in building purposeful solos, simple stating of melody to very complex, measure by phrase by chorus, a perfect "house of cards". When players reach that level of excellence like most mentioned in this thread, I believe one's not necessarily better than the other, just unique. After playing professionally for 24 years I've come to the conclusion any musical instrument if truly embraced and studied for the long haul is a "marriage" and a personal relationship and should be treated with respect. It's really only an inatimate object until we breathe life into it and make it sing. <:-)
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