 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kkocman
Date: 2008-01-31 01:12
Hello everyone, I bought a new Selmer Signature back in August 2007. When I bought it, I noticed no initial problems. However, the intonation of the instrument is now VERY flat. The weird thing is, it's a short instrument with a short barrel, yet it is still flat. It is overall flat, but it is especially flat in the throat tones. My private teacher is baffled, as am I. I don't notice any cracks and my teacher did not notice a leak. Any insight as to why this could occur is greatly appreciated.
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Author: kkocman
Date: 2008-01-31 02:13
Well, I am currently using a Pyne hard rubber barrel (66mm I believe). The Signature came with two barrels- one marked 625 and one marked 645. However, when I use the 625 I am still flat even though it is a short barrel.
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Author: Liam Murphy
Date: 2008-01-31 05:23
Kkocman
The barrels that are supplied for Selmer clarinets are almost always supposed to be used with the Selmer clarinets. The reason for this is that Selmer clarinets have a completely unique bore design that is specifically made to match up with the supplied barrels. Some other brands will work, ie. Backun.
When I first attempted to fix my flatness with my Selmer Signature, I tried to use a shorter "Moennig" barrel from Buffet. This actually made the clarinet even more flat.
Literally 30 minutes ago, I picked up my Bb Selmer Signature from my repairman, and he completely cured my flat throat tones. He aligned the keys so that the pads would raise higher from the tone holes. This was not an expensive procedure, and my Signature plays very well in tune now.
My clarinet problems are thought to have been caused by a faulty case, I now use a Pro Tec case that I find to fit my Signature very snugly, I recommend these cases whole-heartedly. Your problems may be caused by your case also, so I suggest you check with a professional clarinet technician.
Good luck with you Signature, when they work, they are beautiful instruments.
-Liam
Post Edited (2008-01-31 05:29)
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Author: Liam Murphy
Date: 2008-01-31 05:28
Kkocman
Here is the link to a thread I started relating to my Selmer Signature clarinet problems that were theoretically caused by my case.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=264202&t=264202
Good luck again,
-Liam
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-01-31 05:39
that post has nothing to do with the signature's intonation problem. what your topic provides is a tangent for the durability issue of selmer's clarinet cases.
your solution is simple. the selmer signature works best with it's stock mouthpiece the c85 105 which was specifically designed for the selmer signature. I remember reading this from sherman's post somewhere along the clarinet board. give the original stock mouthpiece a try and this should clear up your problem. My friend plays a signature and doesn't use any after market barrels for the signature specifically even though he has tried others.
not all stock mouthpieces suck =)
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Liam Murphy
Date: 2008-01-31 06:45
C2thew,
kkocman said:
<<When I bought it, I noticed no INITIAL problems. However, the intonation of the instrument is now VERY flat.>>
Liam Murphy said:
<<"My clarinet problems are THOUGHT to have been caused by a faulty case...">>
(stresses added by Liam Murphy)
There are a few conclusions that can be drawn form what kkocman has said here. Only one, I selected because of similar personal experience.
The one I selected was merely the suggestion that the clarinet case could be responsible for the degrading intonation of the instrument. This explanation would fit to the sequence of events:
"In-tune clarinet"
Becoming an
"Out-of-tune clarinet"
Other explanations might be:
-Change of mouthpiece or reed
-Damage inflicted by human error (not necessarily kkocman's)
-Some clarinet gremlin that slowly causes intonation problems
If the problem is caused by the wrong mouthpiece being used, then would the tuning have been acceptable at the time of purchase? I think not. That is why I suggested the problem being caused by the clarinet case, as I had experienced almost exactly the same problem, and others. Admittedly I did not mention the flatness in my throat tones and other notes. However my teacher and my repairman noticed instantly. I have come to terms with playing any instruments with a tuning discrepancy, and deal with it however I wish to.
Incidentally, I could not bear to play on the supplied mouthpiece, and it definately had inferior tuning (for me) to my current Vandoren B40.
This is my explanation for my post. I am not stating fact, nor would I be arrogant enough to believe that I could after reading one brief paragraph.
My suggestion was not intended to be a "tangent"
Thank you,
-Liam
Post Edited (2008-01-31 06:47)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-01-31 07:39
My teacher plays on Signature with Lomax mouthpiece and he has no problem tuning to 442 with the stock barrel.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-01-31 15:24
No two mass-produced clarinets are the same as they come from the factory, even with respect to intonation, to say nothing of other parameters. I advise handing any factory-new instrument over to a master technician for adjustments, tuning, etc. Clarinets sold by Ridenour have already been set-up by Ridenour, who is a master technician.
richard smith
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-01-31 16:58
Well, you got some very interesting answers. I play a Signature, I play in the Baltimore Symphony and teach at Peabody. When I bought my Selmer two years ago I had a similiar problem but not so acute. After trying several clarinets over the period of several hours in a warm room I was testing it with the 64.5mm barrel which seemed to tune better then the 62.5mm they supply. Once I got home I discovered I had to use the 62.mm because it was playing flat with the larger one. The problem then was that my throat tones we're still a bit flat so I had several keys raised, the A key, the G key below the A key and the thumb key. That helped quit a bit. Then over the period of several weeks I added tape to several tone holes to bring the sharp notes down, using the shorter barrel. Then I got a Backun bell and 62.5mm barrel because I love them on my Buffets. (I also use my R13 Bb and A with a Backun 67mm barrel on each.) There is no way a barrel made for a Buffet will tune on a Selmer because the bore on the Selmer is so much smaller then of a Buffet. There's also no way I can see you using a 66 mm barrel on a Selmer. You don't need a Selmer mouthpiece either. I use a Morgan on both my Selmer and Buffets and I play in tune, well close anyway. If you need more assistance give me a call and come over, there's no way to know what you're doing wrong without hearing and seeing you play and trying the clarinet. You can get my contact info on the Peabody web sight at Peabody.jhu.edu/457, that takes you directly to my web page.
Good luck, Edward Palanker
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-01-31 19:36
You might notice that the overall bore dimension may have changed.
Narrower=flat (counterintuitive, but true)
Several folks have sent me barrels from Selmer Sig. clarinets, and I noticed that the internal diameters were very variable.
Some were helped by wider barrels (more like a Buffet Moennig, but shorter).
I notice that Muncy makes a barrel specifically for this horn, and I know that other custom makers do this as well
Have you over-oiled the horn? another consideration
Allan
Disclaimer: I make and sell custom barrels
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-01-31 22:41
Sorry I have to correct myself. My teacher got 64,5mm and 62,5,mm barrels with his clarinet when he bought it in a shop in Paris but he needed 61,5mm barrel to tune to 442 and even then it needs to be well warm to be in tune. He doesn't play in an orchestra so that's not a problem. His instrument is stamped 442 on the higher part of the clarinet. When he told the staff in the shop about this tuning problem they said to him that they don't need to tune that high in France what ever that means. He will go to France probably in February and talk to them about this and maybe get an A clarinet to match. The funny thing is that he told me 3 years ago when I complained about tuning problem that I should break my Buffet clarinet's on my knee and get a Selmer. Then in my lesson today he said to me that when we were playing a passage together that my D above the staff was too high. Incorrect. I got my tuner and he was about 17cents too flat and I was on spot.
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