 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-01-18 11:37
Hi,
One of my mouthpieces is a trusty 6 year old old Vandoren 5RV that has been all over the world with me. Whenever we go on holiday I always take an old hard rubber clarinet and the 5RV. The expensive stuff stays at home!
Both have a slight greenish tinge, having spent time in the sun, in hot climates, sweaty bags, experiments with washing... etc, but they still work fine.
A few weeks ago I was in a hurry and took it to wind band practice with me. I was informed by one of the 1st clarinetists, a gentleman whose advice I value greatly, that when a MP starts turning green, it's no good and should be thrown away.
Now, I have never heard this before. I always assumed the greenish tinge was due to a chemical change on the surface and couldn't possibly change the shape inside - certainly not enough to alter the air flow.
What do you guys think?
Steve
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-01-18 12:19
>>I always assumed the greenish tinge was due to a chemical change on the surface and couldn't possibly change the shape inside - certainly not enough to alter the air flow.
>>
I think you're right. My best mouthpiece is greenish and has been ever since I bought it, used. It was in the case with either the 1931 Buffet or the 1937 Buffet; I forget which--I play it on both. Your informant may have encountered mouthpieces that are *both* greenish *and* deteriorated--I've found those, too, simply because the chemical change happens with age and exposure to air, and, over time, plenty of disasters can befall a fragile piece of hard rubber. Since I buy mostly old clarinets and saxophones, I've got several other greenish mouthpieces, ranging from good to totally unplayable. But I'd never replace a mouthpiece I like just because it's oxydizing.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-01-18 12:47
The greenish, sometimes brownish, color is due to the sulphur used as catalyst to vulcanize the hard rubber migrating to the surface and reacting with chemicals in the air to form colored sulphur compounds. These colored compounds can be converted chemically to black and less reactive compounds, by chemical means. Per se these colored compounds are not harmful, perhaps sometimes smelly and may have an off taste, but they do show some deterioration process going on but not necessarily to ruin the function of the rubber in mouthpiece or clarinet.
It is best to keep hard rubber out of sunlight because this speeds the process of forming colored sulphur compounds and deterioration of the rubber itself. Some hard rubber in mouthpieces and clarinets will become soft with deterioration but this is more a function of the initial crosslinking patterns and strength of the crosslinking bonds of the latex than a reaction of the sulphur later on. Some vulcanized rubber ages well (in an acoustical sense - e.g. Chedeville mouthpieces) but some does not but this is more a function of the vulcanization process when it was born.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
(Disclaimer - I am making a recreation of the old Chedeville rubber formulation for mouthpieces)
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-01-18 13:57
Fascinating! Thank you! What chemical means do you recommend? Simple washing with weak acid or base or something more complicated. I work in a biochem lab so can get my hands on most things here.
Steve
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-01-18 15:02
Steve, actually the chemistry is pretty complicated and takes some timing, heat and very reactive intermediates to form the black compounds of sulphur - the exact process is proprietary. As in all of nature chemical compounds try to reach their lowest level of energy and the green and brown sulphur compounds are pretty stable so it takes some trickery to turn a stable green or brown compound into an only slightly more stable black sulphur compound.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-01-18 15:05
If you search the Board, you will find a fair amount of discussion on this issue. Searching on "doctor bleach mouthpiece" without the quotes would be a start.
IMOPO, Vandorens you can throw away. Kaspars and Chedevilles, however, must be disposed of immediately in an ecologically sound way. Send them to me without delay and I will take care of it. I have the proper facilities.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-01-18 15:11
Hello,
The discoloration will not hurt anything. If you do not like it, you can dab a bit of olive oil on your fingers and rub it on the surface. It will be black again, although not permanently. Perhaps you'll have to do that once or twice per year.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-01-19 20:55
play test a new 5RV at a music store.
if you like it better than the old one, buy it and sell the old one.
otherwise, keep playing the old one and ignore the color; if it sounds good, don't mess with it.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: awm34
Date: 2008-01-20 01:23
As Chris Rock riposted about the common admonition to not eat red meat, "don't eat green meat."
Enough said.
Alan Messer
Post Edited (2008-01-20 14:17)
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Author: GarryClar
Date: 2008-01-20 11:43
Hi,Stevensfo,
Did you consider talking to your Dentist about your green mouthpiece?
He probably has something to tell you about cleaning it.
Yr. Pal,
GarryC
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Author: tdinap
Date: 2008-01-21 02:58
Interesting topic--I have a 5RV that I was given by my high school band director about four years ago that has faded to a dark shade of gray. This is most likely because I abused it by playing it in marching band, often in intense sunlight, for two seasons.
I recently decided to try out some newer mouthpieces, to see if one in good condition would be easier to play on. (I hadn't really had problems with the old one, but thought maybe I had just gotten used to its apparently poor condition and would have amazing results with something that was brand new.) I ended up trying three new Vandorens from WWBW: an M13, a B45, and a new 5RV. It turned out that I still play much better, with much less effort, on the old 5RV. Maybe I have gotten used to conditions that would normally be considered poor, but as long as it gives me the best sound, I'm happy with it.
So bottom line (IMHO), if it sounds good and doesn't seem to be a health risk, keep using it as you have been and don't worry about aesthetics.
Tom
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Author: Noqu
Date: 2008-01-21 17:29
I don't think there is any hygienic problem involved at all. In fact, when I recently decided that my 3 years old mouthpiece could do with some rather more thorough cleaning, I soaked it in lukewarm water for a while (something I never bothered to do before), and voilá - it turned greenish. Must have been the temperature of the water - never happened before when I only used cold water.
Guess I'll have to get used to it. Doesn't look too pretty but since it happened due to excessive cleaning I would definitely not view it as a hygienic problem.
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