 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2008-01-15 21:12
After asking around quite a bit, I found someone who can re-angle bass clarinet necks. His name is Rod Siljenberg, and he is an instructor at Southestern Iowa Tech (this is one of the few instrument repair schools in the US.)
I am very impressed with the work he did.
Chris Hill
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2008-01-16 02:38
Morrie Backun did mine a few years ago.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-01-16 02:44
who else re angles necks? charles bay is the other one that comes to mind.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-01-16 03:23
I don't believe Dr. Bay re-angles them anymore as he did years ago; instead he sells a complete, custom neck having the proper angle. It is not cheap.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-01-16 05:57
Hello Chris
Do you know how does Rod Siljenberg re-angle the neck? I don't need the specifics only the general idea i.e. does he cut and solder, bend, etc.? I plan on re-angling my bass clarinet neck (to make it less angled) and I don't want to use the method of cutting it (which several repairers suggested). My grandfather (retired engineer) came up with a couple of ways, one is probably excellent but ridiculously expensive.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-01-16 09:01
I have heard, but never seen or tried, that pipes can be easily bent if they are first filled with lead. When it cools you bend it and the lead prevents the pipe from folding. Then you heat it again and the lead melts out.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-01-16 11:35
For bending copper tubing there exist spiral-wound hollow tubes flared at one end into which you insert the copper....and then bend to shape. I don't know if they make these large enough for the bass necks. I suppose for the bass neck you could fill with melted candle wax.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-01-16 16:23
Another option (although not cheap) for those with Selmer 35 or 37 bass clarinets is the angled after market neck that Selmer makes. I got one a number of years ago when they first began making it. I like it a lot. I actually think that it improves the tone and focus of the instrument as well. You would need to contact a Selmer dealer to get one.
From the Selmer accessory catalogue:
53° Bass Clarinet Neck from Selmer (Paris)
In addition to the standard 32° bass clarinet neck, Selmer (Paris) now
offers a 53° version that fits both models 35 and 37. For aftermarket sales
only, the 53° neck features a more compact design, keeping the instrument
closer to the body while setting the mouthpiece angle similar to that of a
Bb clarinet. The 53° neck keeps the basic instrument acoustics intact while
offering less resistance and allowing more high overtones.
SPN3501 53° Bass Clarinet (models 35 & 37)
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2008-01-16 19:16
Does Buffet make a less angled neck for the 1193-2 available for purchase?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-01-17 05:20
>> Why are you looking to have less angle? <<
I assume from the same reason that you had yours re-angled, to make it more comfortable.
>> Does Buffet make a less angled neck for the 1193-2 available for purchase? <<
I heard they do, so I tried getting one. First time I tried to order (from Walter Grabner) and there was some misunderstanding because Buffet (i.e. a person from Buffet USA) said the neck is available but then they shipped a regular neck with the same angle as their regular one. Back it went (along with a full refund from Walter Grabner). Then I contacted Mark Sloss and he tried to contact Francois Kloc (sp?) from Buffet but after several weeks (or was it months, I don't remember) he still hasn't gotten back to him. If I remember right, I got the impression from Mark Sloss (or rather, he got that impression from Buffet) that the less angled neck is only special order. I pretty much gave up and decided to try bending the stock neck.
>> I suppose for the bass neck you could fill with melted candle wax <<
What about machining wax? Some things I've heard used to bend tubes (though not re-bend them, but originally bend them, which might or might not be the same thing, I don't know) are ice, pitch, sand, and possibly something like solder too.
Bob (or anyone), what do you think about a couple of suggestions of bending that my grandfather came up with - fill the neck, then using exact matching steel rods (they have be very exact, not just close), holding both sides, just use force to bend it. The risk is maybe it won't bend smoothly where you want it, possibly bend at the edge of the steel rod. Maybe just try very slowly and feel if there is a problem? I think this is only possible with the 2-piece necks because you don't have a way to hold the entire neck this way.
The other method is to take two box shaped pieces of steel, and machine them, one to come from above and one from below, to the exact shape that you want the neck to be after the bending. Fill the neck, put the neck between those pieces and with a mchine press them. I don't think shaping the pressers is easy.
Post Edited (2008-01-17 07:28)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-01-17 06:01
BobD- What if the neck were filled with a large coil spring to prevent the metal of crimping?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-01-17 13:50
I really don't know anything about bass or alto clarinet necks other than their general appearance.
Sky....don't know, but would guess the low melting point metal would be a decent try.
Bob Draznik
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-01-17 14:17
The two methods I've used to re-angle necks are:
1) If possible, de-solder the mouthpiece socket from the rest of the neck, grind and re-shape at a slight angle the now-exposed end of the neck, and re-solder the socket there (at a greater angle than before). This is frequently not possible, either because of inability to de-solder the socket, or because there is insufficient length and/or material thickness.
2) Cut the neck just 'downstream' of the socket (with a hacksaw) at about about a 15-degree angle (typically) relative to a line perpendicular to the axis of the neck at that spot; rotate the mouthpiece socket stub 180 degrees, and re-solder it to the rest of the neck. The resulting angle change is twice the angle of the cut (in this example, 30 degrees).
This is the method developed by (I think) and originally used by Dr. Charles Bay, who developed and promoted quite a few useful improvements to the bass clarinet.
With both methods there is a slight reduction of the effective length of the neck and therefore an increase in overall pitch level (especially of the throat tones, naturally) so it is sometimes necessary to increase the length of the neck tenon and add a spacer above the neck cork to compensate.
I'm sure there are many other, equally valid processes.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2008-01-17 16:24
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=201066&t=200845
A picture of my bass neck is in the above thread.
When Morrie made the neck piece the overall intonation of the horn seemed to improve. At least that is my impression and the impression of two professional players who have tried the instrument with both necks. When playing with the orginal piece the neck adjustment is pushed nearly all the way in for proper tuning, with the new neck it is pulled out close to 1/4 ".
Pulling out the adjustment raises the horn in relationship to my body which is a good thing and the reason I had the less angled neck made in the first place.
If my memory is correct Morrie machined the new bass sockets, the piece of cooper in between measures ~1.000 OD and ~.930 ID which does not appear to be a standard pipe deminsion in either english or metric.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-01-17 16:59
Look back at the Selmer description of its two different necks. The reason for the development is to make the bass more comfortable to play, so that it plays like a Bb as far as the angle is concerned. As far as I know, and indeed remember, this was first requested of Selmer from Rosario Mazzeo, who was the bass clarinetist with the Boston Symphony Orchestra for 32 years .
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2008-01-17 21:07
the important question is: how much did Backun charge for that impressive work?
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