 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sneakers4434
Date: 2008-01-14 22:03
The 1940s-vintage B flat clarinet of my youth requires overhaul. The maker's name "A. Robert, Paris," doesn't show up in research I've done. Would like to know if I'm making a worthwhile investment. Anyone familiar with this instrument made 60 years ago?
Stu
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Author: Bill
Date: 2008-01-14 22:43
All I can tell you is that I've seen them come up at auction, I've noted some of the details and saved photographs, and my (totally unfounded) impression is that they are professional instruments.
Bill.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-01-15 00:36
I think I have one here somewhere on my Musty Old Clarinets shelf, and if I recall it appeared to have been pretty well made. I'll see if I can locate it.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-01-15 00:42
All i know is that their mouthpieces are super sought after for some reason. the ones i've seen have gone for 4 bills. curious to how they play.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: sneakers4434
Date: 2008-01-15 01:25
Thanks. Looking thru some old threads (came across your name a few times, I think), found reference to the A. Robert company being purchased by an H. Leroy in 1924 who ran production until selling in 1947. A couple old comments alluded to the instrument perhaps being high quality.
Stu
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-01-15 13:59
I played an A. Robert, in A, clarinet for many years. I bought it in Boston around 1953, . It came from the widow of a Boston Symphony player. She had already sold the B flat one. Mazzio told me it could have belonged to him. Very well made, with a bore as smooth as glass, and all silver lined sockets. Also had a slip joint silver lined barrel. The barrel had a thin tube lining such that when the barrel was pulled there was no gap. I gave it to Larry Mentzer of the San Antonio Symphony, about 20 years ago.
richard smith
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Author: Brent
Date: 2008-01-15 16:51
In a conversation i had with Ralph Morgan probably ten or twelve years ago, he indicated to me that Robert was experimenting with polycylindrical bore design at the same time as M. Caree at Buffet, or perhaps even before. He offered no evidence to support this statement (it seemed impertinent at the time to demand such), so take it for what it is worth. However, his impression seemed to be that the Robert instruments were fine clarinets.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-01-15 17:56
An interesting aspect re: A Robert, Brent, is more known about him, country, additional name, other ? I've searched patent art re: modified cl bores, and have found several interesting US patents to a Robert A Lorenzini !! Is it possible that they are the same? All help will be greatly appreciated in this "detective" search. TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-01-15 20:13
this might be a dumb question but who is A Robert? was he similar to the likes of sml? (low production of instruments, but high quality?)
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Brent
Date: 2008-01-16 16:41
All i know is what i heard from Ralph in that one conversation (which was primarily about Selmer instruments, that being his field of greatest knowledge and passion), and unfortunately he's no longer with us so i can't ask him for further details (or rather, if i do, i don't know that i want him to answer!)
I get the impression that A Robert is a first initial-last name kind of thing, like H Selmer. Ralph did pronounce it "roe-bair" as one would expect if the name is French.
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Author: edgar
Date: 2008-01-18 16:31
I have three clarinets made by A.Robert ("A" stands for Alexandre and "Robert" is a true family name) - two A clarinets with standard keywork and a Bb clarinet with an articulated G# and the usual additional rings on the upper part. You will find a photo of my Robert clarinets on http://www.huckert.com/ehuckert/clarinet_en.htm.
Given the price I paid for them (each around 100-200 $ without the restauration costs) these clarinets are worth the money. They all have the special barrels mentioned in the post by rtmyth. Given their age (70-90 years) they are all in good condition and - most important - they sound well with any larger problem in intonation.
I bought one of the clarinets in Paris. The tone quality of this clarinet convinced me so that I bought the two others from the US. My impression is that these instruments have been exported from France to the US in larger quantities and that they have bought by professionals oder semi professionals who needed occasionally an A clarinet.
The keywork on my clarinets is not silver plated. I think that the clarinets were not as expensive as the models from Buffer, Selmer etc. This says nothing about their quality. One of my Robert clarinets has a bakelite part ("pavillon"? - I am not a native speaker) with the original logo which imho indicates that this was not an expensive instrument.
It is hard to find information on A.Robert. What I found says that:
- he manufactured all kind of woodwinds incl. clarinets, oboes, bassoons, flutes
- the flutes and oboes had a very good reputation (search in the "oboe branch" of the ineternet). I found nothing on the quality of the clarinets.
- he started in Thibouville ("Robert, d'abord contremaitre chez Thibouville Cabart, prit la succession de Claude Rive qui lui meme travailla avec Godfroy") and worked also for Gautrot and Evette & Schaeffer.
- in 1895 he took over the business from flute maker C. Rive and continued to make instruments until 1925 (see the french quote above: he was the successor of two of the most famous french flute makers)
- around 1925 the business ws taken over by H.L.Leroy who probably continued to use the brand name "A.Robert" until approx. 1950
Be careful: I have seen (newer) clarinets syaying "A.Robert" with a totally different logo and a totally different font for the name "A.Robert"
There are also instruments on the market with the brand "E. Robert Marseille" (probably a trader or a music store - one of my oboes shows this brand). I think this Robert has nothing to do with the A.Robert from Paris
I also found on the internet some scans from advertisments in newspapers from aound 1920 where A.Robert calls himself "maker of all types of woodwind instruments).
Edgar Huckert
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-01-19 16:50
My Robert was probably made in the 1920s. Keys were silver plated. Excellent instrument in every respect.
richard smith
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-01-19 18:17
Many TKS, Edgar H - I had an A Robert alto cl [I believe] on back, seemed to be a good one! Your "history" posting will be great for future questions, and solves my "proposed" ,but inaccurate, mystery. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Wichitaband
Date: 2017-12-22 19:58
Having been employed by Wichita Band Instrument Co. since 1961, I've seen and repaired a number of A. Robert instruments. I believe we've had six of their flutes, all of very high quality. Robert took over Claude Rive's shop in 1895; Leroy bought, so it seems, the workshop in 1924. Rive trained with Godfroy (Vincent Hypolite, we assume), which means he worked for one of the finest flute makers of the last quarter of the 19th. century.
As for clarinets bearing the A. Robert stamp, I recall only a handful that have been in our shop. Vance Jennings had (perhaps still has...) a beautiful Robert Bb that he obtained, as I recall, from Rudy Wiedoeft student Raymond McCollister. Beautiful workmanship, a unique left-hand Eb / Ab mounted on the same rod with the LH F/C.
There's a Robert Bb now in Wichita that's the property of a retired pharmacist. He has documentation from the original owner, who purchased it in Paris in 1919. Ebony, not granadilla.. We padded it recently, were impressed with the workmanship. Slightly lower in pitch (A = 435 ?) than a modern clarinet, which makes it perfect for our local Shrine Band.
And now we have a fine A. Robert clarinet, key of A, in our shop. Unplated nickel keywork, serial #1149, very dense and dark wood, perhaps ebony. No adjusting screw for G#, single post for LH F#/C# and E/B. Pitch a shade low also. C# / G# tone-hole not cut, a la twenties Buffet-Crampon models. Flat spring for RH F# / C#.
In spite of the above old-style keywork and slightly low pitch, the clarinet plays very well indeed. Bore is inverse conical (top joint), slightly wider than a modern R-13A.
I recall seeing a pricelist from Carl Fischer Musical, decades ago, showing clarinets available that were stamped with the Robert name. But I do not remember ever seeing one. Perhaps "stencils" from Malerne? Don't know!
And I seem to remember hearing that Stan Hasty used a set of Roberts, back many decades ago.
All of which means I would very much appreciate any info that might be out there in arcane-clarinet-land.
The instrument we now have is a fine clarinet, should be in the hands of a good amateur player. It's now in the shop being cleaned up and padded.
Best regards, Gary L. Ray / Wichita Band Instrument Company
Gary L. Ray
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Author: Wichitaband
Date: 2017-12-22 20:06
Well, "grenadilla" of course, not "granadilla". Should have proofed better! GR
Gary L. Ray
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Author: Wes
Date: 2017-12-23 04:12
In the late 1990s, I visited an elderly seller from an ad for a Robert oboe and a Robert english horn. Both seemed great but when I tried to buy them, the owner's children protested that they should not be sold. I ended up buying a Knabe grand piano from him, however.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-12-23 17:07
I had a A. Robert Bb clarinet which I bought from the estate of a doctor in West Australia. He went to Europe in 1914 and served as a medical officer in the British army during WW1. When he returned to Australia in 1919 he brought a A. Robert clarinet with him. He was a keen amateur musician and played in several orchestras in the 1920-30's.
In 1939 he again travelled to Europe, this time serving with the Australian army as a medical officer in WW2. On his return to Australia in 1947 he brought with him another A. Robert clarinet. He continued to play until his death in the late 90's. Only one A Robert clarinet was in his effects and his son had no idea what happened to the other one. He may have loaned or given it to another player, as he often gifted instruments to young players.
I suspect that mine was the earlier instrument. It had a silver band over a crack in the lower joint, and after a repad it played and tuned well enough to play in a good concert band. I can't comment on the mouthpiece quality as it was not with the instrument when I bought it. I played it with a Selmer HS*. As I recall, there was some oddity about the method of springing some of the keys, with the springs attached to the keys rather than the posts. They protruded into recesses on the posts. I sold it several years ago, but I regret having done so. It was a good instrument to play.
Tony F.
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