 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-01-10 05:06
Just doing some thinking . . . if you're on a C clarinet, then whatever keys the rhythm section is in, that's what you improv on. I would think this would be a blessing as you could just join a rhythm player (piano, guitar, whatever), should out some key and just start wailing away. So how come it's not really a choice instrument? I'm personally going to buy one after I work up my improv skills so I can go up to someone and just jam away without transpositions needed. Just read from their fake/real book and jam away. So I'm wondering who might use it and why it's not prominent.
Alexi
PS - "work up my improv skills" really will probably end up meaning "wishing I had the courage to start working up my skills, but forever just wishing it".
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Lann
Date: 2008-01-10 06:10
My question is similar: Why is it that the B flat clarinet is the cool kid? C would be so much handier!
The only thing I can think of is it might be an issue of size. Now, I've never felt up a C clarinet, only seen pictures and know that it must be a little smaller. But bigger than an Eefer for sure, right? I don't know the answer to your question, but I just want you to know it has also been plaguing me.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2008-01-10 08:58
It would be great for playing violin parts in chamber groups. I have a flute playing friend who sits in with string quartets.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-01-10 10:11
Hi,
The C Melody sax was probably an attempt to accomplish exactly what you seek. However, as a tenor and alto player, I could never quite get comfortable with the timbre/sound of the C Melody.
Having never played a C or A clarinet, I suspect that the acoustical properties of each of these are slightly different so a similar tone color situation may exist. But then, transposing up one whole step is pretty easy, a lot cheaper, and requires no extra equipment.
HRL
PS But everyone's mileage may vary.
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2008-01-10 13:13
I always carry an Eb, C, Bb and A for jazz and blues gigs. It makes it a snap to find a good key to improvize in and provides a small bit of tonal variety. Ideally, I'd like to have a D and G added to the set; hopefully Mr. Ridenour will start making those before I'm too old to play.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-01-10 13:18
I think there's a vicious circle spinning away here: Not enough demand for the C clarinet means manufacturers have little incentive to improve the instrument. Scarcity of high-quality C clarinets means they're expensive. High expense plus lack of quality means little incentive for musicians to purchase C clarinets. Not enough demand means....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-01-10 13:26
There are high quality cheap C horns (ridenour and forte), but if you can improvise in every key on the C clarinet, it's quite likely you can improvise just as easily in Bb.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-01-10 14:11
Hank is on the right/ parallel track re: the handy, good-playing cl in the key of C. I had one on back, and enjoyed it for direct playing of oboe/flute parts, and reading piano charts for jazz etc. HOWEVER, any C cls I've ever tried have been cursed [or blessed] with a "very bright" tonal quality, sounding a bit like the "penetrating" oboe, which sounds [due to its overtone energy spectrum] an octave above its fundemental, thereby being very "intrusive' . Likewise, the A cl sounds quite "dark", beautiful for some concertos, but not lively enough for most of us. SO, the "happy medium" is our Bb sop. Now I've sounded off beyond my knowledge, into opinion, I guess. I believe that the brass insts also have some of these "tonal problems", and the widespread use in bands of alternating Eb/Bb insts has carried over into orchestral music, with some variations required by composers seeking their concepts of "how it should sound". Likely, most of our good books [with clarinet in titles] will somewhere discuss the ancestry of our inst's keys. AM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-01-10 14:16
Most of the music I play is improvised. I never feel a C clarinet would help me in any way, other than maybe just changing an instrument for fun. OTOH I never do what you decribed i.e. play a tune I don't know from a real book.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-01-10 14:23
I know someone who is learning the fingerings for clarinet as if it WERE in C. That is, the thumb and first two fingers of the left hand becomes C.
Tuba players think that way.
And by the way, C clarinets don't sound nearly as rich in timbre as a Bb.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: jwiseman114
Date: 2008-01-10 15:13
Though I am a bit of a jazz snob, I think that any good improviser should have trained themselves to be proficient in any key. Even if you are just a beginner and improvising for fun, I think that one should train themselves in an organic way in which they use their ear equally to reading a line and a chord symbol. The choice of instrument should be more concerned with a sound that you dig...dig?
That being said, I must confess that I am not equally proficient in every key. I can get through all the keys but there are maybe 3-4 in which I play some pretty safe stuff hoping nobody will notice (more practice needed!).
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-01-10 15:47
The biggest problem is that there are no French C-clarinets by definition, only shortened Bb-clarinets. A good C-cl would have a bore something in between a D-cl and a Bb. They should also have a smaller mouthpiece. What we have today is a too loud and a too bright instrument with a somewhat unpleasant sound unlike the German C-clarinet that is a more correct instrument. In my philharmonic orchestra we would love to use C-clarinets when asked for but we haven’t found an instrument with a sound we like.
Alphie
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-01-10 16:31
TKS, Alphie, I believe you are "rite as rein" here, I'm trying to recall if I ever measured the bore of my old Conn C. I know I had to hunt for a ?smaller? bore mp to improve its tuning. Perhaps we can dig up some dimensions from our BBoard makers, Forte and Ridenour. ! More research? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-01-10 16:40
Alphie,
I am not sure I agree with you on this. There are many french C clarinets out there, are you sure none of them is to your liking?
From the "cheap" ridenour and forte to the more expensive patricolas, buffet or custom made rossi, you made find what you like.
I have been playing the Forte in a couple operas and although I am nowhere near your level I did not find the tone of the C to be unpleasant, on the contrary.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-01-10 16:55
> I did not find the tone of the C to be unpleasant, on the contrary.
Same here.
--
Ben
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-01-10 17:00
don,
yes, great senior minds tend to think alike.
On the "need" for a C clarinet so you don't need to transpose, I think the better route for a serious musician to take is to learn to transpose at sight. Not just up one step but down a m3rd, from bass clef, and in octaves on clarinet. Transposing is one of those things that are good to learn to do (like flossing, dieting, and learning a foreign language - no priority order intended).
All of these things take some effort but the payoff is extrinsic as well as intrinsic.
HRL
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-01-10 18:25
It doesn't seem to matter for the Eb Alto or Bb Tenor Sax.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-01-10 20:05
Most of my improv stuff is on my Bb just because it's there when the situation arrises. And, if you're doing improv you're not worried about transposing from sheet music anyway, you're pretty much playing by ear. At least that's how I do it.
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The Clarinet Pages
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