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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2008-01-08 18:31
Why does a player choose brand "X" cane reeds over brand "Y' or brand "Z"?
I suspect that it's based purely on two subjective interpretations and they are response and tone. There could be others such as length of break-in time and longevity of playing, however the last two may actually be subjective and not objective in nature.
Now I realize there are other important items which much be taken into consideration and they include: 1) mouthpiece; 2) ligature; and 3) embouchure.
However, if we were to "objectify" the reason(s), which one or combination of the folowing would you choose:
A) The cut, which includes the entire manufacturing final cutting process
B) The strength grading process
C) Where grown, which includes weather, soil conditions, fertilizers, etc.
D) Length of growing cycle
E) Length of drying time
F) Location of reed on initial cane, i.e., which side and possibly which heigth the reed blank comes from.
G) The thickess of the reed blank
H) The "quality" of the reed blank, i.e., the density and number of and evenness of the "lines" running towards the tip
I sense that their may be other objective factors involved so please feel free to add I, J, K, etc.
So why do you play the particular brand of cane reed that you do? Which of the above reason(s) would it be?
Just curious.
Post Edited (2008-01-08 19:12)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-01-08 19:24
Mainly cut. The standard Vandoren have been my standard for many, many years. However, recently the longer vamp of the 56s has become a better match for my longer lay mouthpieces.
Worse reeds may also have cane that has not been cured as long which makes them less stable.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-01-08 19:46
rue 56 for me, but Portnoy told me one should not play thick- blank reeds because the mpc is not properly designed for them .
richard smith
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-01-08 21:46
(Disclaimer - I am mixed up in cane in many ways - my own, and selling Gonzalez and Xilema reeds)
It would be hard for a player to tell several of your objective criteria but they could ?? be important in any given reed. Since the two biggest makers of reeds get their cane from many sources and countries surrounding the Med. as well as plantations in South America the source, growth environmental conditions, growth cycle (most 16-24 months however), drying time + aging, cane density, etc. will be a mush because cane qualities are blended by the factory to achieve a random quality gradient throughout their production runs. Some of the select types (and more expensive) may have a little more (but not much) selection for cane quality.
The cane buyers start out with a total cost estimate for a quantity of cane needed and then try to get the best + some OK + some marginal cane lots to meet that quantity, given the auction prices for lots of cane on that auction day. So, within any box of reeds there may be different sources and qualities of cane - hard to quantitate. If only it were more simple to select a good reed by sight alone !! We would need to go to the named chateau wine method and vintages to have a decent guidebook for reed cane quality (but hardly economically feasible today).
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2008-01-09 00:17
Thanks, Omar, your reply was quite educational. I have some questions for you that I hope you could help me with.
1. "cane qualities are blended by the factory " Do you mean by this that batches of "high", "medium" and "low" quality are puposely mixed together (blended) during the production process?
2. "try to get the best " What criteria are the cane buyers using to determine "the best"?
3. If all reed manufacturers are "blending", then why do some brands have a very high number success rate per box while the "V" seems to have a very low success rate of useable reeds per box?
4. Some reed makers claim their cane comes from country "X" and another from country "Y" and that this somehow affects their quality. Are they telling the truth about cane origin or could they be "blending" also?
I may be wrong, however I still believe that there is some elusive(?) objective factor for a player to choose one brand over another.
Thank you in advance, Omar, for sharing your expertise with us.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-01-09 03:13
Number 1 - Yes - Since it would be too expensive to only use exceptional quality cane all the time so there is a mixture, some purposeful and some just due to the myriad of sources providing the cane, going into a production run.
Number 2 - The cane buyers are very skillful at judging the quality of the cane - years of experience. They can tell cane that is too young when harvested, not well dryed, of thin wall thickness, the result of poor environmental conditions, etc. I can only liken it to my childhood in Maryland and going to tobacco auctions where bales of tobacco would be auctioned. The buyers would remove a leaf from a bale hold it up to the light to tell thickness and color, smell the leaf, crush the leaf in their hands and look at the pattern of flakes produced -- just long experience with the natural product - and their job on the line.
Number 3 - I think that other factors such as post aging at the factory, the style of cut, and the precision of cut and final quality control may be different for different reed types or manufacturers. Certain cuts may just work better with the majority of the mouthpieces used by players today too?? This one I have not definitive answer for !
Number 4 - only 2 companies (not the big ones) have fields confined to one country. Some companies will say that their cane comes from the Var region of France but there is not enough available space left (first hand observation) for reed growing to produce the quantities of cane needed for the companies obvious production yields. Some may come from the Var but where is all of the other cane grown in Spain, France, South America, Turkey, etc. going? I have test fields in the U.S., Spain, South America, and China all producing Arundo Donax Musicalis (my hybrid) with identical results (of course it is the same cloned subspecies).
Working with cane so much and evaluating reeds so much have given me about a 25/75 chance of holding a reed up to a strong light and predicting playing characteristics - perhaps better than nothing but still not a great
batting average.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2008-01-09 05:52
Thanks, Omar. I believe your response #3 pretty much hits the nail on the head, so to speak.
Perhaps this is why Ridenour's ATG reed adjustment machine is so popular. As I understand it, it allows a player to personalize the cut for their own reed requirements.
Almost all of the ads I have read bring up the fact that "only the highest quality of cane" is used. If your response to #1 is indeed true, then how are we to respond to the following:
In this link, http://www.superial.com/bio.html , we can read about how Alexander only looks for the highest quality cane available and in this link:
http://www.xilema.net/iproceso.htm , we can read about how Canyes Xilema actually rejects cane that would not make a good reed.
Post Edited (2008-01-09 06:38)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-01-09 10:32
(Disclaimer - I sell Xilema reeds)
You are dealing with a biological - plant - material and making reeds from tubes of cane that you cannot tell from the outside what the structure of any given tube will actually be. Also, since most of us cannot tell even from looking closely at a finished reed what the playing characteristics will be from a gross inspection (shining a light through it) there are variables (cane density, arrangement of vascular bundles and tubes, etc.) that we cannot know how they affect a reed's playability.
I have seen the quality control procedures at Xilema and they do indeed reject cane and finished reeds that they feel will not make good reeds for sale and playability - using an experienced person but no objective testing procedures. I do not know about the cane selection process at Alexander. Again, this is a difficult job and mostly based on years of experience dealing with this variable material. I wish that I knew of a more scientific approach - I have offered the approach of a functional vibration test for reeds but have not tested it with enough samples to give a conclusion on the merits of this approach (see previous posts).
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: soldiermusician
Date: 2008-01-10 22:31
Returning to the original question, I have found that Vandoren Black Master reeds work well for me. I use 3.5 reeds on a Gennusa GE* mouthpiece. The tone, response, and stability are better than any other reed I've tried.
I prefer these reeds because of the cut. I prefer the shorter reed with a thicker heart. I am kind of an oddity with the group I play with because of the reeds I use.
Michael
1st Infantry Division Band
1st Infantry Division Band
Post Edited (2008-01-10 22:54)
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Author: Neil
Date: 2008-01-11 01:38
I use Rico Grand Concert Select Evolution because I find that they play well, require minimal break-in and adjustment, are consistant, and are economically priced. I don't know which of the factors listed affect these qualities but I am happy with the end result.
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