 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MJSmith
Date: 2008-01-02 04:55
Hi folks!
I've come to a point in my career where I am going to be making a big purchase. I'm merely seeking "reviews" or insights from those who have played on these specific manufactured instruments.
What are your impressions on the Yamaha (Custom Series) CSV/SEV/CSG?
What are your impressions on the Buffet R-13?
I have played on Yamaha clarinets since high school/and up to now (senior year of college), and I have noticed my tone to be slightly brighter than some of the other clarinetist in the school of music. Now, half of the studio plays on Yamaha, and the others play on Buffet, and other brands. I did not have to try/test many Yamaha's when I bought mine, because they were/are pretty consistent with each other from range to range (playing in tune with itself). I was told otherwise with Buffet, but I have been told they've gotten better with their manufacturing and consistency. My reason for purchasing Yamaha in the first place, is because my studio teacher at the time recommended Yamaha, as he too played on Yamaha. Now that I am calling the shots in terms of what works best for ME, I think I am experienced enough to make these important choices at this point in time.
I suppose one could argue the same things for either manufacturer... I know many who swear up and down that Yamaha is better, or that Buffet is better... I realize that is all a preference.
Recently, I tried another students R-13 with my current setup (M13 and 5RV mouthpieces, with V-12 3.5 Reeds, and optimum ligature) and it was like I was a different musician. My tone was dark, and my intonation was much better and controlled (especially in the upper registers). I've had to try harder to get that type of sound on my Yamaha. I'm pretty much sold on the CSG or R-13, and know that is where my money needs to go, but I wanted to get some opinions and "reviews." I'll be purchasing in the next couple of weeks.
California State University, Fresno
B.A., Music Education - (c/o 2008)
Post Edited (2008-01-03 08:09)
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Author: JDJ
Date: 2008-01-02 05:29
Buffet for sweet and bright.
Selmer for bold and dark.
Total length and bore diameters differ between these two. If you have big or small hands, it will make a difference which one you are more comfortable with (Buffet for larger/Selmer for smaller).
Get a good case regardless of purchase.
In the end, you are right, it is individual preference that counts. Like the wands in the Harry Potter stories (where the wand picks the wizard), sometimes it is the clarinet that picks the player. No many folks in my area of the country are playing on Yamaha Clarinets.
Regards, JDJ
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-01-02 10:48
Hi,
I have a Yamaha CS Custom and now my R-13 is the #2 backup after a Ridenour 147. It's a brave new clarinet world out there.
HRL
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Author: cpark
Date: 2008-01-02 13:55
Try as many as you can, your opinion is the one that counts.
That said, don't overlook Yamaha CSG they are new and hardish to find. Has the sound and feel of an R13(almost) with incredible intonation and evenness.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-01-02 14:34
Hello,
If you're on the search for a new instrument, definitely consider and try the new Orsi and Weir clarinets. They are great and reasonably priced!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: jwiseman114
Date: 2008-01-02 14:43
I fairly recently switched from an R-13 Prestige to a Selmer Recital and I am quite happy. I love the Yamaha CSGs and the Hamilton gold option is absolutely gorgeous. I think the only clarinet that could make me change at this point would be one of Rossi's if I could ever come up with the extra cash. If money is not a problem you simply must try them. Backun's Legacy is wonderful ($$) and Leblancs can be good although they've never really appealed to me personally. Eaton's clarinets are quite good. There are a lot of choices.
I used to be much more opinionated about the subject but I have realized that there are really quite a few clarinets that can be wonderful depending on the individual. I agree that you should try as many as possible.
One word of caution. If you decide on an R13 you should try as many as possible. They are not consistent. You can get a really good horn but you can also get a lemon. In general R13s are overrated. They are good horns but there are people that will tell that you HAVE to play one and it is simply not true.
Good luck
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-01-02 15:40
First, try before buy. Snavely recomended trying at least 20 of the same make and model, so I assume very few, at any price, are of artist quality, which is my experience with 6 at a time. Also, no two instruments are identical acoustically, either in intonation or formants. Another approach is to have someone else select instruments for you to try. Finally, you can travel to the factory and try all they have at the moment, which is what some professionals do. Then there is the matter of reeds, mpcs, and ligatures, and, I should add, you. Good hunting!
richard smith
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-01-02 16:50
I feel the recent incarnations of the Buffet R13s seem to be beset with various issues..wood quality and grain problems persist. Some of the tone hole chimneys look unfinished with chip spots etc. This is a result of quality control.
The Yamaha YSG clarinets I find mighty impressive...also be sure to try any clarinet out with a tuner and allow yourself a bit of time to find the right reed balance. I find the match between the YSG Bb and A clarinet to be super..
resistance wise they are more alike than any other instruments on the market.
.... This is only an opinion so you should try out for yourself this rather tricky pardigm of clarinet playing....I really think a good player has to sort out the A and Bb combo..on Buffet R13s I find the A much more stuffy and resistant than the Bb counterpart.. some clarinetists I know rush this and find reed issues become quite a burden. A good repair tech can sometime help..but overall try to your set to match as closely as possible.
Csg clarinets seem tricky to find right now.
that being said a decent set of Buffets are really great so best of luck!!!
David Dow
Post Edited (2008-01-02 16:52)
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Author: Iacuras
Date: 2008-01-02 17:07
I would recommend to try out the Yamaha CSG. My Bb Clarinet is a Buffet R13 Vintage that I love, and I recently bought a new CSG for my A clarinet, and it plays amazingly. It is a very dark rich tone, even through all registers, and the intonation is amazing. As always, try out as many as you can, and buy the one that feels right for you.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2008-01-02 17:43
I've tried the CS series and the Buffet line from R13 up. The Buffets to me played with more like my Selmer tonewise but intonation wise I wasn't digging it. The throat tones airier than my Selmer, the 12ths as many have stated were way wide, the altissimo was hard to get in tune. Maybe it was the way the Buffet reps set them up but I didn't like them.
The Yamaha CS series, oh man. I fell in love with them right then and there. The tone was very focused and centered but still had a little darkness too it and wasn't extremely bright. The scale was very even and the keywork and set up fantastic. The transition over the break was a very easy one. I would definitely recommend the Yamaha CS.
Just remember, alot of the times tone comes from your own individual set up. I was playing around alot the other day and I dramatically darkened my tone by just switching mouthpieces. They are the same mouthpiece, but one was considerably darker than the other. Play around and find what you like.
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Author: MJSmith
Date: 2008-01-03 08:13
I'm not too fond on the look of the Hamilton plated keys. I know, we shouldn't be going for looks, but I just don't like the gold color key work on any clarinet. If I were to purchase the CSG, I would get the silver plated option.
As for CSG clarinets being hard to find, most of the major music manufacturers are carrying them. I was able to find them at prowinds, woodwind and brass wind, and just about any other online store. I'll be trying another CSG--there are a couple of students at the university that own them, one has the hamilton keys, and the other has the standard silver plated.
Right now, I current play on Yamaha, so I am considering the CSG more and more now, just because of its consistency. Most of the teachers have said "Buffet R-13" is the way to go, but that is just something I feel has been "indoctrinated" into student and teachers minds.
I've been reading reviews at various sites, and it seems that most people have felt the Yamaha CSG model has been very consistent in terms of tone and intonation--and has had to have very little overhauling right out of the box (that is a plus for someone like me who has just enough money to buy the instrument), whereas the buffet will often need more adjusting right out of the box. I think Yamaha may be catching up to the "Legendary Choice of Professionals" or perhaps is already on their heals at Buffet.
California State University, Fresno
B.A., Music Education - (c/o 2008)
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Author: BrianM
Date: 2008-01-04 05:13
Should you get a Buffet or a Yamaha? The answer is yes. They are both excellent horns, so I don't think there is a fundamentally wrong choice. Just play as many different instruments as possible before making your final selection, and make sure you are getting a horn that is meeting your needs.
I would like to ask what model do you play on currently? Do you play in a band/orchestra/chamber music/solo's? What direction do you want to go with your clarinet playing?
It sounds like you want to darken your tone somewhat and have more controlled intonation. Are you also looking for tonal flexibility, or a certain amount of projection?
In my experience the Yamahas have played more consistently from horn to horn and needed less set up work, but a good R-13 is really quite nice. I find that personally I like the tone of the R-13 a bit better, but have heard from a few people that the CSG's sound matures nicely with the horn into a more warm sound. I agree with David's assessment of the horns, especially with regards to the Bb/A sets. I have really liked the CSG A clarinets I have tried.
Anyway, enjoy your new clarinets, whichever you decide to go with.
Brian
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Author: MJSmith
Date: 2008-01-04 08:32
I currently play on the Yamaha CS Model. I've had no major problems with intonation (any issues have been with me as a performer), and the clarinet has always played with a great tone.
It's not so much that I want to darken my tone--because I have a dark tone when I play on other setups. But it comes naturally on certain setups. Controlled intonation is a plus and must for me. With being a solo performer projection is always a plus, but I like a clear controlled tone. I do want to be able to perform a wide variety of styles (classical, romantic, contemporary--I am not really into jazz clarinet).
I play in wind ensemble, orchestra, chamber music, and I do a lot more solo performing (with piano) as well. As far as clarinet playing goes, I see myself going into more of the chamber music/solo performing field. I'm going to pursue my M.M. in Instrumental Wind Conducting, and in Clarinet Performance. Playing in a few orchestra gigs in the future would not be bad, but I am more of a chamber/solo performer. Since my B.A. is in Music Education, I do plan on teaching as well as performing solo on the side. I love the clarinet and do not want to stop playing just because I am a music educator--so pursuing a performance degree and getting more lessons will further my abilities and performing opportunities.
Right now, I have not decided anything in terms of equipment. It will be the CSG or the R-13 though. I've also considered the SEV which is supposedly more of the Chamber Music model, but the CSV is also a good one too! Soo many choices, hehehe.
California State University, Fresno
B.A., Music Education - (c/o 2008)
Post Edited (2008-01-04 08:34)
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Author: MJSmith
Date: 2008-01-07 06:14
Well after doing some more playing on the horns and consulting with some professional studio teachers, I have decided to go with the Buffet R-13.
The music store is going to "overhaul" for me before I pick up the clarinet. I've asked for the beveled cork pads, and additional inspection before they call me to pick it up.
If I could buy both, I certainly would (and have plans on sometime in the near/distant future) get the CSG. The R-13 feels better in my hands, and the setup that I use just worked out better with the Buffet R-13. However, that Yamaha definitely spoke clearly and offered great intonation throughout the scale of the horn. Since I already own a custom Yamaha, I think a great playing R-13 will be just great for me for a long time to come.
Sheesh, so many options out there--if I only I were rich!
Since the wood is "stained", when I take the clarinet to oil it in the future, will the coloring of the wood wear off? How should I go about protecting the wood?
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