 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: swood
Date: 2007-12-18 23:04
I am seriously considering buying a used Leblanc BB Contrabass. Has LeBlanc made any signifIcant improvements in the model 340 "paperclip" between, say, the late 60's and today?
Thanks in advance for your wisdom!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-12-19 00:55
The basic design has not changed over the life of the 340. The early paperclip Bb contras went down only to written low D, but the range was soon extended to low C. Later, Leblanc used a sandblasted finish, and the current ones have a black lacquer coating. In my experience, they all play the same.
Up to around 1970, the Bb contras came with a wide mouthpiece that took only Vandoren contrabass reeds (the box with the drawing of a paperclip contra on its side). This worked quite well, though almost all instruments on the market come from schools, and the mouthpieces are typically in bad shape.
Around 1970, Leblanc switched to a "narrow" Bb contra mouthpiece -- the same width as the Eb contra-alto, though with a larger tenon to fit the larger bore. Leblanc reps told me that they got complaints from women that the old design was too wide to play. The narrow design (on which I use Vandoren bass sax reeds) plays a little easier up high, at the cost of indistinct pitch on the bottom notes. I was fortunate to get a wide model that had little wear and could be refaced. I alternate it with an extensively reworked Selmer C*, which uses the narrow reed, depending on whether the part calls for the bottom notes.
There are many postings about Leblanc and Selmer contras here and on the Klarinet list, talking about mouthpieces, reeds, high register fingerings and much more. Use the search function to find them. You should also go to the Contrabass board, http://www.contrabass.com/.
Ken Shaw
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Author: swood
Date: 2007-12-19 02:16
Ken, great stuff. Do all of the 340's have that double octave key design?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-12-19 17:05
Yes, though the correct term is, I think, "nightmare triple octave key/throat Bb key design."
Ken Shaw
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2007-12-19 17:20
Ken is correct, no detectable changes in mechanical design. Improvements? No.
Don't spend your life saving on one. A decent specimen can be found for under $4000 if you are patient with timing and smart with money.
The design around the peg/holder on the Leblanc contra clarinets is a seriou flaw. If you spend time playing them you know what I mean. Always, always wear a neckstrap and support the horn on its body at all times.
Ken, the contrabass.com site seems to be inactive for ages.
Post Edited (2007-12-19 17:24)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-12-19 22:03
I got a length of silicon surgical tubing (not rubber), cut 3/4" lengths and put it over the "wings" on the screw that tightens the support rod. This lets me turn it plenty tight to avoid sliding. If you have a round knob, wrap a couple of heavy rubber bands around it.
For $4000, get in touch with me about mine.
Ken Shaw
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Author: diz
Date: 2007-12-20 02:44
LOL @ Ken
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2007-12-20 02:49
I think the contrabass.com site may not be entirely inactive, but in any case, the associated mailing list is alive -- traffic is rare, but it's there, and questions do get answered.
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-12-20 05:46
Ken: If you have trouble with the rod slipping, just drill a small hole through the rod about every 3/4" or so for about 4" - 5"in the general area where the rod would be clamped for different height chairs. Then use one of those "bobby pin" looking clips (don't know what you call them - similar to the thing you push through a trailer hitch lever to keep it from popping up) to keep the rod from slipping and letting the horn drop. (you could make a similar clip with a large paper clip)
Just adjust the peg for the height needed for the chair in which you are sitting, push the clip through the nearest hole below the rod clamp. Then you slide the rod up until the clip contacts the clamp and gently tighten the clamp screw. The clip keeps the horn from sliding down the rod and the finger tight set screw keeps the rod from falling out when you lift the horn.
It works great. (I used a drill press with table vise to bore through the round peg)
Eu
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2007-12-20 06:35
Great advise Eugene, this thread should be flagged for future reference.
It's a shame we have to do the engineering for Leblanc.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-12-20 07:50
Ken, which of the mouthpieces would you choose if you only used one and you weren't limited to the parts you play? I'm asking because of the slim chance I might actually get a contrabass clarinet in the future and and I don;t only play parts but mainly improvise and wouldn't want to use more than one mouthpiece.
Thank you!
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-12-20 12:43
By the way, I have fixed the pegs like I explained above on our community band bass clarinets, as well as the local school bass and contra bass clarinets. It works. The horns cannot slip down the peg and bang on the floor.
I keep a couple of the inexpensive clips (about 25 cents each) in my bass case in case I misplace one. One player has his clip on a piece of string tied through the lowest (unused) hole in his peg so it won't get lost.
Eu
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2007-12-20 14:43
About mouthpieces, I'm using a Selmer C* and it's taking the Vandoren reeds perfectly, playing the lowest notes very well. So Ken, is your Selmer C* reworked to such an extend that is uses 'narrow' reeds now?
The octave system DID get changes over time. At one point, it was a manual system with two octave keys. I think around 1950-60 the automatic system was designed. Some say the manual system is better to play very high in the altissimo as you can make overblow choices yourself.
Also, one can sometimes observe minor differences in placement and design of the octave holes/tubes from one instrument to the other. It's like they kept experimenting with it at Leblanc.
I've even seen a straight metal contra with low serial nr. with only one overblow hole (on the side of the top bow).
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-12-20 21:51
clarnibass -
Selmer contra mouthpieces are well designed and made of good material, but they're mostly unplayable. Selmer's manufacturing equipment has gotten WAY out of adjustment, and they sell so few contra mouthpieces that it's not worth the expense of making the fix. Get a Selmer ONLY if you're prepared to spend another $100 getting the table made flat, the lay made even and the baffle fixed.
I've never tried a Vandoren contra mouthpiece, but some people recommend them.
For the cost of buying a Selmer and having it set up, you can almost get a Fobes San Francisco mouthpiece, which is hand-made and excellent. He also makes a student Bb contra mouthpiece for, the last time I looked, $89, which should be good.
Roger Garrett makes good, inexpensive contra mouthpieces. He plays bass clarinet very well and so knows what works.
nahoj -
The Selmer Eb and BBb mouthpieces have the identical table and rails and take the "narrow" reeds from the outset. I have a C* for both my Eb and BBb contras, plus a Leblanc wide model for the BBb. All three had very extensive alteration (by Kalmen Opperman), but he didn't change the width.
Ken Shaw
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-12-21 18:40
I checked around the local hardware stores for the name of those clips and came up with: "Hitch Pin" or "Hair Pin Clip". The thickness of the clip that I use is 3/32", a readily available standard size, and the holes in the peg are small enough that they don't weaken the peg.
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2007-12-21 21:10
I must be lucky with my Selmer mouthpiece because it plays very well. It's an old one too, maybe that's why. Or perhaps it *has* been reworked; I got it with the instrument 2nd hand. Is there some way one can see if it's reworked?
Or... I just don't know what a really good mouthpiece would be like... never tried another.
And I use the 'wide' Vandoren cbcl reeds which fit the facing well, nicely producing a distinct pitch of the lowest notes.
I was going to get a second mouthpiece some time but I'm doubting now which one. I should try some different ones but it's difficult to get them together without buying (ordering) them.
Although... there's a clarinet shop now in Paris which specializes in contra's and say they have some accessories ready.
Maybe also a good tip for others... www.contrabassclarinet.org.
And the problem for the bad floor peg... good tip here above -- I'll try it too. Perhaps another system that could work is to make engravings on the side of the peg? I thought I heard that somewhere before.
The most final solution is to have another peg installed. I find the original peg quite unstable and short too, apart from slippery.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-12-21 22:55
When I played BBb contra in the West Point Band, I got a chair with a long seat (front to back), sat back, adjusted the peg very short and rested it between my legs near the front of the seat. This made a very solid anchor, since the peg didn't bend or wobble.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-12-22 12:09
Another good choice for a seat is an adjustable drummer's throne, if you don't mind having no back rest (or maybe modern drummers' stools can be had with back rests). I bought my drummer's stool from a female percussionist who used it in nightclubs for years. Like me, she's short. In order to be able to reach the mouthpiece and all the keys on a contra clarinet without craning my neck or straining my hands, I need that ability to set the height of the seat exactly right. Those thrones come with plastic-covered seat pads that I found uncomfortable to sit on during long practice sessions, especially in hot weather, but it was easy to replace the plastic with more comfortable fabric.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2007-12-22 12:38
Ken, I can do that too with the contralto, but the contrabass is just too long for me to do that.
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2007-12-25 04:54
My solution to the peg clamp problem was to turn a rounded groove into the peg shaft every 1/2" or so over the area I use. You will see similar grooves in the peg of a string bass, sometimes. This way you don't have to rotate the peg to the correct orientation; you just have to slide the peg in slowly, feeling for one of the low spots with the clamping screw.
This should be a quick and easy job for an instrument repair person who has a lathe.
However the hairpin clip (as used on trailer hitches) and a through hole are certainly more foolproof.
John Morton
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