 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2007-12-18 21:58
Hello: I've searched through many threads related to oiling keys but have not found what I need.....
Does anyone know a site (or thread) that shows exactly where to place the oil ? My old clarinet is getting noisy and has not been oiled in years. I'd like to learn to do this myself.
thanks !
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-12-18 22:14
Before you oil your keys, take the time and a cotton rag to remove lint near the pillars. (better yet, remove the keys (at least those that have a rod screw) and clean tube and bolt with a pipe cleaner)
Then, put a drop of oil on a coin (or the lid of a 35mm film canister, or any similar flat surface), take a sewing pin/needle and pick up one droplet (hold the needle horizontally while doing that). Then, place the needle's tip right into the groove between pillar/post and the rod - the droplet will will be sucked up immediately. Operate the key while doing this. One droplet for a pivot-type screw (the keys with loooong rods) is enough, two droplets for a rod-type screw key should do as well.
I use #1 grade (whatever the best quality) sewing machine oil for that.
Clean up with a cotton rag.
--
Ben
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-12-18 23:17
Peter Eaton, custom maker of high end clarinets, writes on his web site, under "Clarinet Care" -
http://www.eatonclarinets.freeserve.co.uk/
"...Oil the keywork regularly to keep wear and noise to a minimum. We recommend motor oil, not the thin oils usually sold for this purpose. We do not recommend that the bore of the instrument be oiled..."
Discuss among yourselves ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-12-19 06:04
I think Peter Eaton refers to some of the oils sold as key oil which make it seem like they work but after a while possibly make it worse. There are some key oils sold for this purpose that are very good like the Doctor, Alisyn, Ultimax, and probably others. Those oils come in a needle oiler so no need for the method Ben described because you can put it directly from the bottle. From the oils I mentioned each has advantages and disadvantages. Thsoe companies also have several types of oils from thin to thick and each is better to use depending on the situation so it's not that thin oil is necessarily bad.
Although oiling would help against some noise maybe there is free play that is better to solve, or maybe even too hard and noisy silencing materials that are worth replacing. Several things could cause noise.
Post Edited (2007-12-19 07:35)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-12-19 10:34
Ah, yes, but those needle oilers don't always work the way they are supposed to...at least mine doesn't and then I get a "gush". The needle oiler is , however, a decent way to deposit the oil on that 35mm lid and then transfer it with a needle or tiny crochet hook. So, now, we have another enigma (thin vs thick oil) to confer about.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-12-19 12:07
"We recommend motor oil, not the thin oils usually sold for this purpose. "
I think Peter Eaton is a little out of touch. There are some excellent higher viscosity oils now sold, some of which are far better than motor oil, in that motor oils have unwanted additives in order to carry out specialised functions in hostile environments, eg a very hot engine, or removal of products of combustion. In woodwind instruments, these additives often result in gummy residues after the lubricant component has eventually evaporated. Some are formulated only for use with steel, and actually CAUSE corrosion of silver and copper-based alloys.
The Alisyn synthetic oils, and the (probably much the same) Doctors Products oils are excellent, and so probably are the Musicmedic and Yamaha oils. Personally, I use the two standard viscosities from Alisyn, and an even higher viscosity from Kraus.
For noise-silencing purposes, it is probably best to have the highest viscosity that does not significantly interfere with the speedy action of the key. This means different viscosities depending the contact areas involved, and the precision of the fit of these surfaces, so pivot point screws use highest viscosity, while a long, precision-fit pivot tube uses lower viscosity. Higher viscosities are also slower to evaporate, and slower to be 'wicked' away from where they should be, by contact with the lining of the case, and during contact with fingers.
Of course, higher viscosity oils are a lot less likely to migrate by capillary action after external application to where they are needed, so pivot rods and screws may have to be removed to do a decent job of re-lubrication if REGULAR 'top-ups' have not been done between the posts and the keys.
To do this for a pivot rod, I remove the rod, put a small drop in the hole, partly return the pivot rod, apply another small drop to the pivot rod (near the post), then complete the installation of the pivot rod.
For the pivot point screws, I remove the key, fill the oil 'reservoir' in the ends of the key's barrel, and re-mount the key. (There is no way that 'reservoir' can filled without removing the key.)
For applying oil, anything that works to apply a very small drop, say the size of a sesame seed, to where it is required, is fine. I use glass syringes. Unfortunately these are now difficult to obtain, this possibly being the sole remaining source: http://www.dynamedical.com/
(The single use syringes are not suitable, because the oil tends to come out in an uncontrolled fashion, especially after the oil has damaged the rubber seal in some types.)
Post Edited (2007-12-19 12:09)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-12-19 13:35
Gee, did anyone mention wiping the old, dirty oil off the pivots and rods first?
As for viscosity, Bill Bannen used a higher viscosity oil on the long rods because it aided a more robust feel while enabling the spring tensions to be lighter.......ie for the rings and any pads that stay up at rest.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-12-19 19:04
Hmm. That's often a given, as is removing any rust, and perhaps checking that a rod pivot runs freely.
However if I know that the previous oil is what I applied, and there is no sign of deterioration or contamination, then why wipe it off? Modern synthetic oils are so good that they stay good for many years in this non-demanding environment.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-12-19 21:03
I have yet to see a rod or pivot with three months or more of wear that didn't have a blackened coating of oil. There will always be a modicum of particulates that have worn off the surfaces of the the moving parts.
.......Paul Aviles
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-12-19 22:24
That modicum of black particulate is the same stuff you see when you sharpen a knife on a stone using oil. The rod in the tube actually performs a lapping type of action which, of course, eventually causes a sloppy fit.
Bob Draznik
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-12-20 05:00
>> Ah, yes, but those needle oilers don't always work the way they are supposed to... <<
I disagree... they never work the way they are supposed to! 
But some work good enough to use.
Here is some of my experience with the oils I've tried. IMO all three are very good in doing what they are supposed to do after they are on the keys, but the differences are in other areras.
Doctor - Has a funny smell I don't like. Also has a colour which is both good and bad I guess. Has the most comfortable oiler that is round so is stable. Might leak but I'm not sure since it could be just oil sliding on the outside of the needle, I'm guessing the latter but I don't know.
Alisyn - Transparent. Doesn't have a smell. Doesn't have a needle but a short plastic nozzle that is pretty good too. Slightly less stable than the Dcotor's bottle. Doesn't leak at all.
Ultimax - Transparent. Doesn't smell. Has a small eliptic bottle so not so stable on the table. Very comfortable needle (same as the Doctor's but not bent).
I keep using all three for now and I guess I'll make a decision when I have to order more.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-12-20 10:17
"I have yet to see a rod or pivot with three months or more of wear that didn't have a blackened coating of oil. There will always be a modicum of particulates that have worn off the surfaces of the the moving parts."
Hmm. Perhaps change to a higher quality oil. With the right oil, there should be almost no metal-to-metal contact.
BTW, the blackening of oil can also be a reaction between sulphur-based additives in the oil, reacting with silver (plating?), to produce black silver sulphide. Note that copper sulphide is also black.
Moral: don't use oils with these sorts of additives... avoid engine oils.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-12-20 11:05
"With the right oil, there should be almost no metal-to-metal contact."
Good points, Gordon, although the above comment makes me wonder. IF there is metal to metal contact, oil...any oil...will only decrease the amount of friction as with, for example, knife sharpening. As you have pointed out many times a poor fit between rods and tubes is something a good tech will address and correct.
All petroleum based oils contain sulfur unless it is removed and the lower the quality the more sulfur. I question if any oil producer actually adds sulfur to oil. Automatic transmission oil is probably the most highly refined of the petroleum based oils and although it's not commonly used in "motors" many people would probably refer to it as "motor oil". As someone has said, "why do we call an automobile engine a motor?" Then there is the question about just how far into a tube does silver plating extend.....when they are silver plated. Certainly anyone concerned about instruments should use the highest quality oil obtainable. It appears that what oil to use joins the reed, ligature, mouthpiece arena.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-12-20 12:41
Just to add more confusion to this topic: I ran into a manufacurer of a soybean based oil at the Texas Bandmasters Convention that was marketing the product for the lubrication of french horn valves. Perhaps the good "Dr." can tell us if plant based oils are ok for rods and pivots as well.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-12-20 13:41
I wonder why no one is considering snake oil for lubrication purposes...
--
Ben
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-12-20 14:47
I recomend using high grade clock oil, available in one ounce bottles and needle dispensers at clock and watch shops. After cleaning the pin and key tube, place a drop or two of the oil inside the key tube, then position key, insert pin, etc.
richard smith
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-12-20 18:03
(Disclaimer - I sell NASA mil spec. synthetic key oils of various viscosities)
The old, old clock oils made by Nye were sperm whale oil which had some great qualities and were the basis of the synthesis of many of new synthetic oils. Since whaling became a no-no the Nye formulation is now a highly refined but petroleum based oil. IMO the newer synthetic oil lubricants are vastly superior to any of the petroleum based key oils because they show little viscosity change with huge extremes of temperature, they do not evaporate like petroleum based oils to leave an abrasive sludge or varnish, and have less coefficient of friction per viscosity rating than petroleum based oils. Newer synthetic oils have qualities that increase bonding to metal surfaces and may also have anti-rust and anti-corrosion properties lacking in petroleum based oils. Well chosen synthetic oils also will not harm wood or pads like many petroleum based key oils.
Plant oils can undergo autoxidation and break down into acidic elements which would harm metal overtime so they are not IMO a good choice.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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