 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aequore
Date: 2007-12-17 03:23
Ok,
Not so long ago I was passed on a Vintage clarinet from the 1960s. Its from 1961 to be exact. Its supposed to be the sweet spot of the R13's and trust me the horn feels that way too. But what I came here to discuss are the products of the Doctor ''The Doctor's Products''...
I purchased several items, these were; the ''Legend Swab'', Bore Doctor, Wood cleaner, Syntek Cork Grease, and the newly brought to the market ''grenadilla Oil''...
I bought specially the Bore Doctor, Wood Cleaner, and Grenadilla Oil, for my vintage clarinet and for its maximum! care. Ive been told nothing but good reviews about his products and the way on how everything is naturally made. I would like some feedback on all these products listed above. Specially on the Oils, are they really that good for vintage or prized horns. How about this new Granadilla Oil that its said to nourish back the wood with its original Oil. Does it really work, has anyone tried it??
Pete
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-12-17 10:00
"... Specially on the Oils, are they really that good for vintage or prized horns. How about this new Grenadilla Oil that its said to nourish back the wood with its original Oil. Does it really work, has anyone tried it?? ..."
The effectiveness or otherwise of such a product can really only be determined over a long period of time with anecdotal evidence, or analysed by a very clued-up person in an extensively equipped laboratory, which very few people have access to.
"The Doctor" is very clued up, and has indeed done extensive testing in this area, in just such a laboratory, He has also put effort into researching the systems used in museums to make timber items last intact for as long as possible.
So IMO this becomes a question of do we trust him in his findings, or do we not. In the absence of anything better to go by, I trust him.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-12-17 11:02
I have tried the Grenadoil on three wood clarinets: an R13 dating back to 1971, an Evette Master Model c. 1968 and a Leblanc Symphonie 3 A clarinet of indeterminate age. It seems to have worked nicely on all three. Time will tell, but I trust the Doctor. He is an honest and fair man, and a great person with whom to do business.
JEff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-12-17 11:48
All Doctor's Products are great...that's my experience.
Bob Draznik
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-12-17 12:17
i've tried the grenadoil also. i can't decide if i like it better than his bore doctor or not. like JJA said, time will tell. i love the bore doctor product btw.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2007-12-17 12:29
You might check out his cork crease made from slippery elm too. It is really nice and is excellent on the bigger joints of alto and bass clarinets. Has a different (better) feel than traditional cork grease too.
Eefer guy
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-12-17 13:14
I've tried many products from the Dcotor and I thought some were great and some not that great. Sticking to the products you asked about -
I prefer the natural cork grease from the Doctor over his synthetic one. For sythetic cork grease I prefer Alisyn, but I prefer the natural one from the Doctor the most from all cork greases I've tried (there were many). I've seen how regular vaseline or crappy cork grease can ruin cork so I recommend the Doctor natural cork grease to everyone.
I've heard good things about both the bore oil and the Grenadoil (is it named after a dinosour?  ). I've only tried the bore oil a little and thought it was good and I just trust Omar on this and use it since I have no real way to know if it really helps more than other oils or no oil.
The wood cleaner works and cleans, but not necessarily better than soap and water and other traditional cleaners. I haven't noticed anything special when I used it.
I've tried many other products too.
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Author: Aequore
Date: 2007-12-17 13:42
I agree with ''Clarnibass''...
The Syntek is really no that good, its super greasy on your fingers but when applied on cork it stays for a little while which the effect is in all not that good. After, once you take the joints apart and put it back together in a matter of seconds its like you hadnt applied any grease at all...
''Though I guess, time will tell''. But isnt that a scary thought?...its like saying ''oh well, time will tell if my medicine worked or not, if it did not, ill have to submit to the terrible consequences''........Im just a bit confused in wether to use the Bore Doctor or Grenadilla Oil. ???..that phrase of time will tell does not leave my mind at ease. Which is what i would like with my horn.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-12-17 15:14
(Disclaimer - I am the maker and seller of Bore Doctor and Grenad-Oil)
I'll try to stick to the facts without blatant advertisement. Bore Doctor, a plant derived mixture of oils, emulsifiers and antioxidants, has been around for over 10 years. Grenad-Oil is an exact chemical duplicate of the oil found in Grenadilla wood and other Dalbergia (blackwood and rosewood) species. Thousands of liters have been sold to technicians and players with no reports of bad results on the instruments during this period and additionally under an OEM agreement to make Fret Doctor for string fret boards. Quality control samples of each lot are preserved and tested at designated time intervals for evidence of degradation and turning rancid. Samples that are now over 10 years old show no signs of degradation or turning rancid when stored at ambient temperatures (well, in my garage that has ranged from -5 to over 40 degrees C). Accelerated drug company like studies on Grenad-Oil also indicate stability for many years. These tests run at 37, 20, and 4 degrees C predict useful product stability over time and are the FDA and industry standard for predicting stability of a product sold as an active drug compound - similar tests are done by the food industry.
As to whether any product helps an instrument you will have to form your own opinion based on the evidence available and weighing the experience of others whose opinions you value or the weight of evidence presented.
Doctor Syntek Cork grease is the generic military specification grease labeled as Alysn Cork Grease, and made by the same company that makes Alysn. As with any cork treatment the product must be used for a while in order to penetrate the cork and/or displace other cork treatments used on the cork.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
Post Edited (2007-12-17 16:39)
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Author: Fred
Date: 2007-12-17 15:14
I actually like Syntek quite a bit, though I keep both in my case. As far as the oil is concerned . . . I think your R13 would be delighted to get either product.
The Bore Doctor was likely the best oil on the market until his grenadilla oil hit the shelves. I'm not sure that the new product is "better"; I am sure that it is more expensive. It would seem to be more "natural" if that has added value for you.
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Author: Aequore
Date: 2007-12-17 17:14
I took a look at the previous post concerning these products. Very interestng by the way. But it still looks like everyone is still wondering which one is better or good at all??...trickyy
Post Edited (2007-12-17 17:15)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-12-17 17:50
>> But it still looks like everyone is still wondering which one is better or good at all?? <<
IMO the question is more whether this is a subject worth obssesing about.... You don't belive in oiling? Don't oil. You think the regular oil works, use it. You think the more expensive one is worth the extra? Use it.
>> ''Though I guess, time will tell''. But isnt that a scary thought?...its like saying ''oh well, time will tell if my medicine worked or not, if it did not, ill have to submit to the terrible consequences''........Im just a bit confused in wether to use the Bore Doctor or Grenadilla Oil. ???..that phrase of time will tell does not leave my mind at ease. <<
I can only suggest to get your clarinet, play something ,and take your mind off it This is not so important like your health. I know many players who had their clarinets oiled without the Doctor oil and just used veg oil (like almond or olive, etc.) and amazingly enough nothing terrible ever happened. They still play and can do the things that are truely important.
>> I actually like Syntek quite a bit <<
With the Doctor synthetic cork grease I don't like that it is very greasy. So it's a question whether you like a very greasy cork grease or not. I don't, maybe you do. The natural cork grease is not greasy and also stays better on the cork when assembling. For less greasy synthetic cork grease there is Alisyn, and soon I'm going to try another type called Ultimax, but really I like the natural one from the Doctor the most, and it has a very good smell too!
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Author: Dick
Date: 2007-12-17 18:42
Gee - I didn't know that my clarinet is already a vintage instrument. I was 16 when I got it. I wonder that makes me
Dick
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-12-17 20:08
I said "time will tell" simply because I only applied the new oil to three clarinets a little over a month ago. It would be reckless and foolish of me to make predictions and prognostications as to how that product will perform over time. I have full confidence that it will work as well as Bore Dr. would work. I do not know if it is a significant improvement over the other product. I was willing to try it based on several factors, including the fact that is is identical to the oil within the tree when it is in its natural state, the Doctor's excellent reputation, my personal experience with his products to date, and the fact that I had a 20% discount from an e-mail I received from his site.
Disclaimer: I am a satisfied customer, no more and no less. I do not receive any compensation of any kind for saying good things about Omar Henderson or his business and products, with the possible exception of some good Karma. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-12-17 21:09
I like Dr. Syntek and Dr Slick is convenient
The legend swab is great.
Caveat......I do NOT suggest over oiling, and am a oil-minimalist myself, but do use some in select applications. That being said, here goes..........
I did a comparison of the bore oils on a plank of Mpingo (well seasoned but freshly sawed in preparation for use as a woodwind part)
Bore Doctor and Grenadoil (named for Popeye's distant nephew in law, W. Hans Genadoyl) and generic Bore Oil.
The generic oil sparsely absorbed, and then left a slick.
The Bore Doctor and Genadoil absorbed readily, absorbed again on a second coat, and were easily rubbed off upon a 3rd coat which did not absorb . Neither left a slick. Perhaps the Grenadoil absorbed a bit more.
Which is better....oh boy, time will tell.
I might repeat the experiment and then submerge the stock in water and see what happens. I might subject the billets to stress and see if they crack. But that is for another year.
Disclaimer.........
I receive no monetary consideration for my favoring of DoctorsProducts for use on the barrels that I make and sell
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2007-12-17 21:15)
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Author: Aequore
Date: 2007-12-17 21:20
Thanks for your exciting experiment Alseg...
Yep i guess time will tell...in a few years,... oh boy ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
I guess I'll go with the Grenadilla Oil. See what happens, and as soon as i see any results i will come BACK! and reply...Now, how do you recommend applying the Oil. How do you know when to stop or keep on Oiling!
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Author: Copland
Date: 2007-12-17 23:40
I don't want to seem like I'm hijacking the thread, but I have a very similar question, so I don't think I should start a new topic.
What is the purpose of oiling a clarinet, and how do I know if I should do this? I have a very nice RC clarinet that is only a few years old, but then I have a circa 1980 Evette would clarinet, and I would assume that only the latter would need it, if either.
Thanks!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-12-18 03:34
And a similar series of questions based on:
"I said 'time will tell' simply because I only applied the new oil to three clarinets a little over a month ago."
What do you expect to be the indicator after a time, that suggests that it "worked"?
What would be the indicator that suggests that it did NOT work?
I'd prefer to trust the research scientist on this one.
BTW I too, like the natural grease, but prefer the smooth, moisturiser-like feel of Alisyn over the more sticky Syntek, even though their basic lubricant ingredient may be the same.
Post Edited (2007-12-23 13:35)
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Author: Aequore
Date: 2007-12-18 07:26
Ok, getting out of the subject just a little...
I have another question...my 1961 Horn only has its serial number on the bottom joint. Is that Ok?..or normal...I am asking this because i have seen 1967's buffets and they have the serial on both joints. Does anyone have an earlier clarinet than mines to explain this please.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-12-18 19:12
I have used both of the Doctor's cork grease products- the natural and the syntek. I love both and find both to work EXTREMELY well. I like the synthetic on my mouthpiece cork for fast switches. Once it has absorbed a bit, it is fantastic and lasts quite a while.
Keep up the the good work Doc!!
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-12-22 13:29
I use quite a few of the Doctor's products. It's been my experience that they work exactly as Dr. Henderson says they do.
I just received a bottle of the grenadilla oil and gave my vintage Couesnon Monopole clarinets a treatment. My goodness, the 50 and 40 year old wood is glowing inside and out. I've used the Doctor's bore treatment for several years and I don't remember the wood having this kind of glow. I'm going to wait another day before playing the clarinets. If I experience a noticable difference in how they play I'll report back. But, even if they don't I'm entirely happy with the restorative effect the grenadilla oil has on my vintage clarinets. It's like they are young puppies once again!
Thank you Omar!
Roger
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