 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Emily's Dad
Date: 2007-12-11 02:45
We homeschool my daughter, Emily. She goes to the local public school two hours/day for band. She is a clarinet player in the 7th grade, playing in the 7th and 8th grade bands (and will be playing wth the High School band in January.
This year she played first chair clarinet for the District Junior Honors Band. (Yes dad is proud of her.) HOWEVER, we have been told that when she gets to High School, she will be inelgible for the Honors Band at that level UNLESS she is enrolled for at least five classes. Of course, that would defeat our purpose of providing her academics at home. Also, since she cannot go to the District Honors Band, she won't be able to try out for the All State Band either.
I would have thought that each District would be looking for the best muscians they can get. (The students aren't supposed to disclose their schools when they do tryouts, so it is not as if the schools are competing.)
My questions are, how important is participation in Honors and All State bands for someone looking to study music after High School? How much weight do colleges place on ths participation? What other avenues should we be pursuing to make up for this? (We are planning on having her audition for the St. Louis Symphony Youth Orchestra this spring.)
Anyone help from someone with similar experience woud be helpful, as would input from educators working at the college level.
Thanks ahead of time! I will be watching the board!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-12-11 03:27
Emily's Dad wrote:
> My questions are, how important is participation in Honors and
> All State bands for someone looking to study music after High
> School? How much weight do colleges place on ths
> participation?
Honestly - not much. My son never participated in them - he went to a music and arts school that did not compete at any state level. He got into a conservatory no problem at all. The audition and interview are what really means something. The one thing you'll be lacking is ensemble performance and peer competition so ...
> What other avenues should we be pursuing to
> make up for this? (We are planning on having her audition for
> the St. Louis Symphony Youth Orchestra this spring.)
that and good summer music camps are what would really help. She'll have no real comparison for her skills without that kind of experience.
Stephen's dad.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-12-11 03:35
Mark's (of course) right on. Our band never sent any of us to any sort of Honor Band activities (except for I think 2 times ever and those weren't competitive...).
I played in local youth orchestras from 10-12 grades and went to summer music camps all through high school. That and great private instruction really work the best to prepare for the level of a conservatory. Peer competition was non-existant in my high school anyway, although I did enjoy playing in band there.
There may be a music school nearby which could match her with other similarly-minded/skilled musicians for small ensemble work if you and she would like, also.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-12-11 03:59
Playing in a local community band for 4 or more years will be deemed highly by colleges who look for a "community service" requirement.
Many community bands also award their own scholarships to seniors in the band who plan on pursuing music in college.
Our local community band (which has a substantial treasury because of a recent endowment) awards up to $1500 a year (maximum $6000) to those seniors who played in the community band and are now attending a 4 year music program...GBK
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-12-11 04:17
Your isp shows up as San Antonio.
But you reference St. Louis in your post...
I don't know about Missouri - if you're in Texas a home schooled child can be entered into the All Region audition process.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2007-12-11 12:36
In Charleston (SC) there is a music school devoted to providing band and ensemble music for local private school students. They gladly accept home schooled students as well. They offer concert bands from beginner to advanced, dance band, and several jazz groups. There are performance opportunities and the more advanced groups even play occasional local gigs. Check around your area, there is probably a similar organization.
The community band is a good idea too. Several high school students are regulars in ours.
The biggest problem with either of these is that they meet on evenings and weekends, unlike a regular school band.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-12-11 12:56
My daughter ( and a few other high schoolers) are regular participants in our adult community band. (My wife discovered an article in the local paper where they needed clarinets, and thought it would be a good activity for the two of us!) My daughter actually sits a few chairs ahead of me, and also doubles on the eefer. she has a great time with the group, and was the featured soloist at last year's cabaret concert.
Additionally, the band offers summer music camp scholarships (from concert revenues) to kids in the local high schools and middle schools. They have paid for her to go to Blue Lake twice, and last summer, she went to Western Michigan University's camp on their dime.
Look into the local bands!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-12-11 13:55
FWIW, some of the local home schooled people in the area were dismayed that the school told them the same thing about their students and High School - that they were not able to participate in band unless they were enrolled.
They later found out that that was untrue. The school was trying to get them to enroll to get additional school state funding. They were allowed to be in the band and not be enrolled in the school after that fiasco.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: William Hughes ★2017
Date: 2007-12-11 14:50
Whether or not a public school district can deny limited enrollment to home schooled students will depend upon the law in that state. In Indiana, such a rule was upheld by the courts (Ind. State Bd. of Educ. v. Brownsburg Cmty. Sch. Corp., 865 N.E.2d 660 (2007)).
Post Edited (2007-12-11 17:24)
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Author: dgclarinet
Date: 2007-12-11 15:10
They let home school kids audition for district/all-state in Georgia now. If they do it here, I'd bet there's a pretty good chance most states would allow it. The high school band directors don't like it, but most of that comes from home school kids beating out their students in auditions.
I don't think that the "being in district band" is that important, but I do think that playing in some sort of group is extremely important. The Atlanta area home school band is doing pretty well now..they even have a marching band for their football team.
If I were you, I'd check with the Missouri (or the state that you're in) Music Educators Association (mmea.net) and make sure you have correct information concerning high school kids auditioning.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-12-11 16:37
I think that you should find other ensemble experiences for your daughter. Have a look around and ask about smaller groups --like pick-up chamber ensembles. A high school band is pretty limited in its repertoire, and dumbed down to what is possible. In our community, there are actually three bands that play at three different skill levels. A few of the kids join in the community orchestra (when functional) and both learn and contribute.
We also encourage some of the "kids" to come play in other groups. Ensembles without a conductor place different burdens of musicianship on the player --valuable.
When college application time comes, prepend a nice name to these groups, get a letter from a senior member and milk that experience to the max.
Bob Phillips
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Author: davyd
Date: 2007-12-11 17:16
As a nonparent, I can't approach this from a "what's best for the child" perspective, critical though that is. Nor can I address the "best" strategy for being accepted to a conservatory.
But as a longtime community ensemble player, I fully support the participation of school-age musicians, home-schooled or otherwise, in community ensembles. Both the students and the ensembles will benefit.
However, it's important that the students have the necessary skills, especially if they are playing an orchestral wind part or something potentially soloistic like that.
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2007-12-11 17:20
dgclarinet said:
"The high school band directors don't like it, but most of that comes from home school kids beating out their students in auditions"
I feel the need to addfress this ludicrous statement. I have been educator in New York State for 28 years...everything from lower grades through college. I have never run into a home schooled child who was as well prepared for college/life as a student who had gone through the public/private school system. I have found home schooled children to be lacking in basic skills and socially inept.
Maybe in your state, home schooling does a better job thatn the public/private schools. In my experience that is far from the case.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2007-12-11 19:14
Bravo FrankM!
In my experience the parents that home school their kids are trying to insulate their little minds from cultural, social, religious ideas that are different from their parents'; perpetuating closed minds and prejudices. Having made that onerous choice, I feel that they must also accept the loss of the collateral enrichment that comes from arts, sports etc.
I don't know if that would be enough to tip the equation to motivate these people to expose their kids to public, private or parochial schools, but I think that one has to buy in to the whole package. If there are emotional or physical reason why the kids can't learn in the mainstream, that, in my mind, is the only justification for home school -- rarely the case!
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2007-12-11 19:44
"I have found home schooled children to be lacking in basic skills and socially inept." I guess what FrankM means is they can't roll a joint in 30 seconds, bing drink and aren't parents by age 15. At least most homeschooled kids know how to read, write and do basic math, skills that are not well taught by our public instituions these days.
The average SAT scores of home-schooled students were 568 Verbal and 532 Math, above the national averages of 505 Verbal and 514 Math.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Richmond1958
Date: 2007-12-11 20:03
This is only the second string that I have participated in, the other being one a few days ago where many of you were tremendously helpful to me on concerns I had upgrading my daughter's clarinet (thanks again). I know that many people have strong opinions on home schooling, but Emily's Dad's question referenced that fact only in the context of asking for advice on what's best for his daughter given the situation that he's faces so that he can give his daughter the best chance to succeed, and some of the original posters focused on that. Built into the facts, obviously, is an opportunity to debate the merits of homeschooling, but I don't think that's what he is looking for here. Instead, he's looking for the same sort of ideas and options that you all were so helpful giving me a few days ago.
As I am still new at this myself, my only specific advice for Emily's Dad is to, as to the issue of whether Emily can play in the high school Honors band, re-engage the school on that issue a little more forcefully if that is a path you would still like to pursue. It seems to me, as a lawyer, that the school's criteria for allowing highschoolers to participate in honors band, if it is based in part on taking a sufficient number of courses, could be challenged by a homeschooler as it is likely based on an assumption that such a criteria exists to make certain that the Honors band is only available to good students maintaining a full courseload ... which makes perfect sense if you are enrolled at the school as a student, but doesn't make any sense if you are homeschooling your daughter, particularly if she would be eligible to participate in the regular high school band. I would think that is you could bring in objective evidence that she is performing at an equivalent level, they should at least give her an audition. They may have never faced this specific issue before, so maybe it can still be worked out.
Best wishes to you.
Post Edited (2007-12-11 20:30)
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Author: Emily's Dad
Date: 2007-12-12 01:16
Thanks, Richmond1958 for bringing the discussion back to my original questions. Thanks also to all of you that have offered your input.
In response to the statement:
"In my experience the parents that home school their kids are trying to insulate their little minds from cultural, social, religious ideas that are different from their parents'; perpetuating closed minds and prejudices."
Let me say this. We first brought our oldest home after the fifth grade, when the school was failing to help him learn. We do "homeschool" through an accredited correspondence to hold ourselves accountable-and the results have been wonderful.
In regards to Emily, she DOES go to school for the band, and is a part of the student counsel. We have even had two of the districts administrators tell us she was getting the best of both worlds. NOT EVERYONE WHO HOMESHOOLS DOES SO TO INSULATE LITTLE MINDS.
We will look into what opportunities exist in our community.
Thanks again everyone!
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Author: Mike Johnson
Date: 2007-12-12 02:02
FrankM says, "I have found home schooled children to be lacking in basic skills and socially inept." That is funny...I've found the same thing with many public school teachers. People like you are the reason public schools perform poorly.
Larry, as someone whose opinion I normally respect, I find that you come across as extremely prejudiced with your last post. We homeschool our kids, but are not religious. My kids all play baseball, soccer, and study martial arts. All play at least two musical instruments well. Our kids are socialized in appropriate quantities for their age, not thrown in to an unmanaged public school free-for-all. My kids have tried public and private school...neither came close in terms of quality or social opportunities (!) presented with homeschooling. Most importantly, they love learning...something that most kids don't seem to get in the public schools.
It is inevitable that there will be those who will continue to ignorantly slam homeschooling. Most seem to belong to an older generation that is rigid in their ways or their politics. The cliche that homeschoolers aren't socialized or are being sheltered by parents may be true in a minority of cases, but study after study continue to show that homeschoolers not only surpass, on average, their public school peers academically, but they are also more socially confident, capable, AND respectful of their fellow human beings. The dirty secret here in California is that most racism, sexism, and other -isms are learned in our public schools!
To Emily's Dad (Roger), don't worry about the honor band. Just take advantage of other available music opportunities, like community bands. We're lucky where we are since we have both a jazz band and an orchestra for kids. If you don't have what you want, start it up...they will come! See if Emily wants to start up a small ensemble group and do some public performances. I can tell you homeschoolers with a record of taking initiative are valued (I work for the University of California-Berkeley). Universities know that public high schools are full of it, and are not looking for a straight-out-of-the-can approach. If you find a university that is doing that, walk away...it's not worth it. As a final note, here is an article about the Colfax brothers who homeschooled and then went to Harvard: http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=132239
Mike Johnson
Napa, California
Post Edited (2007-12-12 02:03)
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