 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wiclarinet
Date: 2007-12-09 04:14
I found a small clip of a clarinet player tounging FotB at 180 bpm. Pretty amazing.
http://www.classicalmidiconnection.com/cmc/romantic.html#R
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-12-09 06:16
I have heard a recording of Robert Spring doing it. It's amazing. Absolutely clean, crisp and amazing.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-12-09 13:45
Robert Spring has worked up single tonguing sixteenths to over 200 beats per minute. I've heard him do it live. Even at his level, however, he said that to keep it clean, he has to do a warmup every day that lasts nearly an hour.
Charles Neidich has recorded the Weber Concerto #2, taking the end of the finale at 120 and tonguing the sextuplets.
In either case, IMHO it's a stunt, and not good music making.
Flight of the Bumble Bee was written for violin, and I've usually heard it slurred in violin performances. It represents a bee buzzing around. Separating the notes emphasizes the buzz rather than the flight. Also, of course, a violinist "double tongues" naturally, articulating with both up and down bows.
At least as Neidich does it, the Weber tonguing calls attention to itself, rather than the swoop and rush of the sudden acceleration with the change from groups of four to groups of six. In his performance, I hear a string of notes, rather than groups of six.
Every professional clarinetist needs to develop a quick tongue for the Midsummer Night's Dream scherzo and Italian Symphony, the Beethoven 4th finale solo, The Bartered Bride, etc. I've never been able to double tongue, but, at least on a good day, I can single tongue short passages at 144.
Elizabeth Gunlogson's DMA treatise on Stanley Hasty, http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses/available/etd-11132006-155903/unrestricted/EG_Treatise.pdf, is a treasure trove of his ideas and teaching. The description of his method of "burst speed articulation" at pp. 136-38 is exactly what I worked out for myself -- keeping the front of the tongue high and forward, and making the smallest possible movements.
Ken Shaw
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-12-09 14:25
Check out Mclane's recording of excerpts.
richard smith
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Author: wiclarinet
Date: 2007-12-09 14:48
sorry. i thought that was the website. you can find it on wikipedia if you search for "flight of the bumblebee," and it's at the bottom with a couple of other excerpts.
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Author: William
Date: 2007-12-09 15:45
Ken wrote, "Charles Neidich has recorded the Weber Concerto #2, taking the end of the finale at 120 and tonguing the sextuplets.
In either case, IMHO it's a stunt, and not good music making"
I recently heard (NPR) Charles Neidich playing the Mozart Clarinet Quintet in which he tongued practically passage envolving quadruple notes. Fantastic technique--but rather (IMNSHO) more appropritate for David Letterman's Stupid Human Tricks than the aesthetic musical performance Mozart deserves. Showmanship at it's articulative best--but not good musicianship.
I have always considered the tonguing of the "Bumblebee" to be for show and not for music--although I--with my sluggish tongue--am always enviours of those that can.
Post Edited (2007-12-09 21:09)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-12-09 22:40
William -
The Mozart Edition of the Quintet, which is as close to the original as current scholarship can get, has very few slurs in the 16th note passages. See http://dme.mozarteum.at/DME/nma/nmapub_srch.php?l=2. The same for the Concerto http://dme.mozarteum.at/DME/nma/nmapub_srch.php?l=2. In the Winterthur fragment (in the previous link beginning at p. 165) Mozart put in many slurs, but did not put them in passages that are always slurred today.
In his recording of the Concerto, Tony Pay tongues almost everything, and makes a reasonable performance. However, I still think think it doesn't work well, even though at least the first movement of the Concerto goes at a tempo where most players can single tongue.
I'm with you on Neidich. He's an amazing player, and often a fine musician, but far to often he does things simply because he can, to the detriment of the music.
Ken Shaw
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Author: brycon
Date: 2007-12-10 03:17
I know that Charles Neidich is a very scholarly musician so I would disagree with the statement that "he does things simply because he can." If you have studied composer's manuscripts, read treatises on performance practice, performed works on period clarinets, etc. like Neidich has then I apologize.
With that said, the Weber and Flight of the Bumblebee are both virtuoso works. I personally don't see any reason why they shouldn't be played in a virtuoso manner. I think it's silly to criticize a player for showing off in a piece specifically written to show off the soloist. Sorry for the rant...
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-12-10 03:44
I've certainly heard Mr. Neidich put in flourish and flair where it wasn't written. I personally like it. He's a phenominal player (which I don't think many would dispute), and I like that he puts that little 'personal' touch in pieces sometimes. Perhaps it's not precisely what the original composer might have wanted, but I see nothing wrong with putting your own touches on things. And if I could tongue the entire flight of the bumblebee while circular breathing, I most certainly would! Hell, if I could just PLAY the flight of the bumblebee, i would!!! One step at a time I guess.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-12-10 13:49
Ken,
Recently checked out Tony Pay's CD of the Mozart Concerto from the local library. I have a Barenreiter edition of the concerto, so I see that most things are marked tongued, but this is the first time I have heard it performed that way. I too, think the concerto benefits from some added slurs in many places, to add contrast and variety if nothing else. Other than that, there are other things I liked about Mr. Pay's performance, especially the way he approaches the first fermata 3/4 way through the exposition.
Now flight of the bumblebee, I don't understand why one would want to tongue that except as a bizarre exercise.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2007-12-17 22:51
Robert Spring's toungued FOTB is one item from his cd "Dragon Tongue". That recording is mentioned in Michele Gingras book, "Clarinet Secrets", as an example of double tonguing.
Just how fast can single tonguing get, assuming sequences longer than quick bursts? Someone mentioned Spring being able to single tongue sixteenths at 200 bpm. This does not sound impossible for the tongue, though I suspect it would take a long time to get both coordination and stamina to a level high enough for it to be effective in music.
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