 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: haptown
Date: 2007-11-22 02:22
Why are clarinets made in sections? And if it has something to do with the wood - why don't you find one piece plastic clarinets out there (or maybe there are and I just don't know about them)?
If this is a dumb question I am sorry, but I guess I'm just tired from the Thanksgiving preparations and so my mind has begun to wander.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-11-22 02:33
Among the reasons and/or results...
- The joints can be adjusted for tuning
- Easier to transport a small nearly-square object than a long, thin one
- Individual pieces can be replaced to the performer's liking
- Easier to find good pieces of wood in smaller pieces (I imagine that's one of the big reasons, as my Eb has a one-piece body)
- The bell being a separate piece makes good sense, as you'd need a MUCH bigger piece of wood for it to be thick enough for the bell, wasting a lot of it when it's milled down for the body.
So, my guess, piece by piece:
Mouthpiece is separate because tastes in mouthpieces vary.
Barrel is separate for tuning purposes.
Middle sections are separate so that smaller pieces of wood can be used.
Bell is separate to not require an enormous piece of wood.
As for no one-piece plastic clarinets, I imagine it's to keep production uniform. No need to reinvent the wheel, and the current system works quite well. There are old one-piece metal clarinets out there. In essence, why WOULD you?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tdinap
Date: 2007-11-22 03:01
I was under the impression that the middle joints were made from the same piece of wood, but maybe that's just me being naive and idealistic.
And I've seen a clarinet with a one-piece body, rather having than two middle sections. I've never had the chance to play it, but it sounds great when played by its owner, and he told me he loves that he never has to worry about middle-joint tuning issues or technical problems with things like the xoo|xoo Eb/Bb fingering.
Tom
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-11-22 06:20
have you ever seen a stack of grenadilla wood. I don't think they mark them A/B, this and that. They just get used in the milling process. I recall this question being answered by one of the big 3 on their website (at one time), they simply stated that they just process the pieces.
If you watch that auction place ever so often you will see one piece bodies of soprano and bass clarinets. those are pretty long. and think of a tree - how many are straight enough for creating as many clarinets as possible. It's cheaper to have them in pieces
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-11-22 12:16
I've wondered about this and suggested on this forum that Buffet should make a Green Line with no middle joint. (I remember that my first clarinet teacher had two wooden Buffet's like this — but I'm sure there were a lot more big pieces of grenadilla to choose from 60-75 years ago.) Another member responded and explained that it would be too expensive to do the necessary re-tooling. That's a shame because it would allow re-positioning of the C#/G# for improved intonation and eliminate the problems associated with the bridge mechanism. But we'll get by.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-11-22 12:29
If the top joint splits, it's much easier and more economical to replace that joint only rather than the whole body tube as that's what would have to be done (in extreme circumstances) on a one-piece bodied clarinet. Though there have been some good one-piece bodied clarinets made that have never split.
Plastic suffers with a greater degree of thermal expansion/contraction than wood (in that it shrinks and expands in all directions due to the structure of composites), and mix this with long metal key barrels and in cold weather you'll have keywork that will bind up solid, so a fair amount of slop between pillars (relative to the key barrel length) is needed to prevent binding up in cold conditions. So that's why a lot of plastic basses and contras have what seems to be sloppy and rattly keywork.
Wood is affected by moisture and humidity levels and will expand and contract widthways more than lenghtways (due to the structure of the fibres), so keys mounted across the body (eg. top joint throat A key, speaker key and side keys) will need some amount of play between pillars to prevent them binding up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2007-11-22 13:04
> a Green Line with no middle joint
Sure, it would require investment... but that sounds to me like a real 'killer app' for the technology.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-11-22 13:38
A 1 piece clarinet body of any material by any company that makes 2 piece clarinets would be a huge dent in profits. Even if none of the keys or tone holes were redesigned, they would still have do adjust their machines to cut a piece of wood or plastic that's about twice the length. Also the cases would have to be redesigned and made. Certain things about a 2 piece body make repair easier, too- some screws are very hard to get to (with the standard key system) if it were 1 piece.
Basically, it would be too much money and time for the major companies to risk.
Big companies don't risk anything. I went to a week long music camp that was sponsored by a large company- at the end of the week we had to give our name tags back so they could used the clip/plastic portion the following year. THAT is penny pinching but they do save money that way.
Post Edited (2007-11-22 13:48)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-11-22 13:56
The Rossi clarinet is made with a on piece body.
http://www.rossiclarinet.com/
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-11-22 14:08
> we had to give our name tags back so they could used the clip/plastic
> portion the following year. THAT is penny pinching but they do save money
> that way.
Recycling does make sense. It may appear as penny pinching, but knowing that 99% of the audience would throw their badge in the next bin, why not collect them? (I am sure if you asked nicely you could've kept yours)
--
Ben
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-11-22 15:52
"Basically, it would be too much money and time for the major companies to risk.
Big companies don't risk anything."
Say it ain't so! Next you'll tell me there's no Santa Claus!
"The Rossi clarinet is made with a one piece body."
Interesting site, thanks for the link.
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-11-22 17:13
Quote:
Among the reasons and/or results...
- The joints can be adjusted for tuning
I have played a single body Eb before and have to say the tuning appears much better than in the split body horns I've played. I once had a discussion about this with my teacher in college and she agreed, saying the placement and size of a few tone holes had to be adjusted to accomodate the space for the middle joint. While there are issues to tuning a clarinet in general, it seems having a middle joint makes the intonation of some notes worse - at least in my experience with playing on both a single and split body Eb.
Anyone who has played a single body Bb have a similar experience?
Post Edited (2007-11-22 17:13)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-11-23 22:54
Boehm system (and other cylindrical bore) flutes don't have centre joints, and some have a one piece body and footjoint (eg. Uebel 'New Metal' and the wooden B&H flutes).
Though with some flute players the tuning is certainly questionable.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-11-24 02:19
There was this one clarinet made with a all in one body AND barrel. And a screw-on bell. I'll see if I can find the link . . . . apparantly (if memory serves correctly) Gordon (from New Zealand?) said that there were the rage for a little while where he's from. I'll do a little searching and try to find the link of it.
I haven't played them (or a Rossi) but from the thread I remember them from, they were played by some professionals which Gordon used to service their horns. I just found it very interesting that it was a body AND barrel all in one and that the bell was threaded on, not with a cork.
Alexi - Who will put an "EDIT" at the bottom once he finds it...
[EDIT] = http://www.orsi-wind-instruments.it/cl_verdi.htm Here it is. REALLY interesting, and if I ever get a vacation to italy you can bet I'm going to visit this place and try it out (as well as their metal clarinet) as well as pomarico mpc factory
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2007-11-24 02:23)
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-11-24 09:40
Hanson will custom build one piece clarinets as well. (After sfalexi gets done at the Orsi factory, maybe he'd take a spin up to West Yorkshire and test drive one of those titanium clarinets!)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-11-24 12:49
Alexi, you might want to check out the Orsi facility a little closer to home, first. John Weir has collaborated with Orsi and now makes clarinets as a joint venture in Nova Scotia, IIRC. Ben Redwine has reviewed their products quite favorably, too
Here's the site: http://www.orsiandweir.com/
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2007-11-24 12:51)
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2007-11-27 16:17
Your question isn't dumb at all. As was mentioned before, Rossi makes all his instruments in one section instead of two. When we were there to see him a year ago in Chile he was adamant about the importance of doing this for the proper intonation of the center notes, and also this eliminates the guesswork in positioning the sections to allow the one and one fingering of clarion Bb to work. Rossi also supplies made-to-fit clarinet cases with his hand-made instruments. But he's a small manufacturer, and as he explained to us, he wants to stay small in order to incorporate any needed improvements quickly into his design without first having to get approval from a Board of non-musical Directors. The Israel Philharmonic must like his design since they took delivery of three (or was it four) of his creations, and Paquito D'Rivera is being made to wait for his fourth one.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-11-27 16:30
I've been wondering about those titanium clarinets for a while . . . maybe one day in the far future I will take a trip there to see it first-hand . . . .
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2007-11-27 23:41
There was a video circulating on YouTube about this.
I also viewed the full production of "M'pingo, the tree that makes music"
which is available through the blackwood conservation site.
This stuff is VERY hard, and to machine it for a smooth central bore, at a profitable rate, is difficult. Just getting the chips to clear is tough, and most tools overheat.
There is a spectacular, catastrophic failure shown in the show.
It's explosive, where the reamer encounters some unseen flaw and the works disintrate at high speed.
Shorter pieces mean shorter tools, which can be stiffer.
It also means that if a small piece is wrecked, only half the instrument is dust.
http://www.blackwoodconservation.org/video.html
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