 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DougR
Date: 2007-11-16 18:46
Let's say someone drops nine grand in your lap. That new low-C bass clarinet can now be yours!! but ... how?
I checked with a local retailer. They have two Selmer 67s in stock at the moment, and one Buffet 1193. (And this is a major, high-volume dealer.) But ordinarily, he says, these horns come in from the manufacturer and then go right out again, frequently already pre-sold. So, if one wants to try out a range of instruments on the spot, one has to leap immediately, as it were, when the opportunity presents itself, which clearly can be a random thing depending on the retailer's stock situation.
The alternative is to have the retailer send a horn when they come in, and trust that it'll be a good example of the type, rather than a dog. We all know how variable the quality of professional-level soprano clarinets is, and the absolute necessity of trying them out before purchase. When you're spending triple the price of such a horn on a new bass, trying it out seems even more imperative. But, given fluctuating stock situations, how??
So back to my original question. Given the foregoing, what strategy would YOU employ in shopping for/buying a new bass?
(footnote: the figure 'nine grand' is based on a quoted list price of eighty-five something plus applicable sales tax, which in my case is 8.25%, which would put me a hair over nine grand.)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-11-16 18:50
You could always contact Walter Grabner
http://www.clarinetxpress.com/Buffet.html
He is has a great reputation for picking great horns. I would feel VERY comfortable getting one from him.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2007-11-16 19:29
A sometime colleague was in this situation a few years ago: he wanted to make sure he was getting a good instrument (though I don't know about the price tag).
Anyhow: He contacted The Woodwind & The Brasswind, telling them he wanted to buy a good bass clarinet. He went there in person: nearly halfway across the USA. They had several instruments waiting for him, and he was able to try them out and buy the best one.
That's clearly not a solution for everyone. But it worked out well for him.
I took a different approach: I rented a bass clarinet (a Noblet) for a theater production. After a month with it, I decided to buy it. Again, not an approach that will work for everyone, but it worked out well for me. (OK, it's not a great horn, but it's adequate for my uses.) To be sure, few if any stores rent out such instruments in the first place.
Another colleague was in the market for an upscale bassoon. His teacher (a member of the local major orchestra) was able to be helpful in some way that I don't recall in providing a choice of prospective instruments.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2007-11-16 19:40
Do any of the "big names" in bass clarinet select instruments for a fee?
I know some artists do with soprano and Eb clarinets, and there is a room at the Buffet headquarters in Jacksonville where they test the instruments out on their trip to Florida. This has been successful with a couple people I know/their brand new Eb clarinets/ big name orchestral Eb player.
Perhaps Lawrie Bloom (since he is a Buffet artist and is in touch with them about their equipment) or someone else of his stature in the bass world does this?
What I would do is narrow it down to which brand I want and which model, and then follow through with the "artist-professional selection" option.
Bradley
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2007-11-16 20:12
I got mine from Dave Kessler (Kessler Music online) from his shops in Las Vegas. Last week I asked them how much they were this year and he said something like $7300 or so. I haven't been able to find a better deal, the shipping is free in the states, and Dave Kessler makes sure the horn is tweaked out when you get it.
Downside, he only has two this year and they may be sold by time he gets them. :o(
BTW, the instrument just plays itself. I am over joyed with the quality, intonation, and keyworks (ergos). Does anyone pay list anymore? I hope not.
Cheers,
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2007-11-16 20:13)
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Author: William
Date: 2007-11-16 20:42
One effective, although expensive, is to have someone prelelect some from the Buffet distributer in California for you to audition. Here is a link to one such service that I have had personal positive experiance with at the old IMS in Des Plaines, IL:
http://www.lisasclarinetshop.com/faqs.html
Buffets only, however.
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2007-11-16 21:08
The Buffet Distributor is no longer in California. It's in Florida.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-11-16 22:26
> So back to my original question. Given the foregoing, what strategy would
> YOU employ in shopping for/buying a new bass?
I'd have one custom made.
I'd order an Amati 692, book a flight and a hotel and sit together with a trusted repairman, go over the horn and the mouthpiece, and with the rest I'd buy Dah Missus a pearl necklace and the kids an iPod each.
The only problem with that equation are the nine missing grand... ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Cosmicjello
Date: 2007-11-16 23:26
Michael Lowenstern suggests flying to the Selmer factory in France.
To read his thoughts:
Go to http://www.earspasm.com
Click "performers" on the left
Click "how do i?" at the bottom right
Drag "buy a new bass" from the left onto the "[topic window]"
Use the "<back" and "next>" to scroll between pages
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Author: DougR
Date: 2007-11-17 13:32
Well, I thank everyone so far for some really interesting posts. The Lowenstern article is absolutely a must to read, and the "Grabner Option" is something I hadn't really considered, but makes a lot of sense.
I studied for a while with a bass clarinetist in a major orchestra. He said when he went to replace his old bass, he put the word out to his bass-playing colleagues around the country (from the way he described it, it sounded like a sort of 'orchestral bass-clarinet mafia') and they each, in their respective areas of the country, tried horns out for him. He ended up getting, in effect, the best of probably 50-60 instruments, AND chosen by the best. Not an option for most of us, I'm afraid!
One point Lowenstern makes is that used low-c instruments (IF one could find them, which is extremely problematic) will probably have some serious intonation problems, and evidently the new models from Buffet and Selmer have pretty much cleared that up--additional incentive to spend the extra money for a spanking new instrument. And ... Paris ? well, it'd be a hardship, but I could perhaps handle it. Now, where's the $10k going to come from?
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-11-17 13:43
Start in a fresh page before clicking on the Lowernstern link. On my computer, it warped the page and extended the scroll corners off-screen,
Bob Phillips
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Author: DougR
Date: 2007-11-17 14:13
Incidentally, I'm checking Paris music dealers online and finding dollar prices for the Selmer 67 running between $9,355 and $11,706, which is a huge spread (the latter figure is, I think, the "suggested" retail). That's at one Euro = $1.465. And just think, the rate can only get worse! Whee!
The Kessler alternative (see above) is sounding mighty good right now.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-11-17 15:58
Did you make sure the prices that you are looking at in Paris stores is without VAT? Since you're American you won't have to pay VAT (if you order by mail you don't pay VAT, if you physically come there to buy it you pay the VAT but then receive it back in the airport with a special form).
About Michael Lowenstern's comments of intonation problem on "used" bass clarinets. I didn't read it again (I read it a long time ago) but I think he said/meant old bass clarinets, not used. I know of at least two people who bought a used Buffet 1193, or Selmer 37, which are great instruments (I don't know of anyone who bought a used Privilege yet!).
So for the original question, here is how I bought a bass clarinet about three years ago. I decided on a low C instrument so called WW&BW and asked if they had any Buffet 1193 and Selmer 37 in stock. They did. I planned my visit to New Jersey (11 hours flight). After I found WW&BW don't have their store in NY anymore, and some cursing, I decided to go to their store in Indiana. I got to NJ and drove to Indiana. Found their cheesy looking store, and asked to try Buffet and Selmer low C bass clarinets. They said sure. I asked how many I can try. They said I can try five Buffet low C instruments, which made it sound like they actually have more than that in stock. When I asked about it they explained they can't let me try all of them because they have to keep some prepared to try or send imediately (ones I try have to be put back in stock). They brought five Buffets and a couple of Selmers. After trying a few of them I already decided I wanted a Buffet. Two of the five had minor problems (bell cork too big on one and a tiny mechanical problem on another) so they brought two more instead. So I tried seven instruments. I'm sure they had more (I'm guessing at least 10-15). They were so consistent I couldn't really believe it at first. It almost didn't matter which one I chose, but I just went with one that sounded slightly better to me (maybe). Thn back home. It wasn't that long ago but the price was about $2,500 less than it is now.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2007-11-18 02:54
Thanks, Clarnibass, I was totally ignorant about VAT. Did some subsequent internet shopping among Paris dealers and, deducting VAT (19-point-something percent), found a low of $7,117.60 and a high of $8,511.20 for the Privilege. (The Buffet 1193 is somewhat cheaper, but I'm not pricing it at the moment.)
Glad to hear about the consistency of the horns you tried. Given that, it seems that there are several viable options for acquiring a new bass domestically. Also, I'm getting the impression that Paris prices are somewhat lower than here, so that too is an option (assuming one has that kind of money to spend on a bass, of course). The "buy a bass in Paris" fantasy is irresistible, and as long as it's fantasy, I think when I go, what the hell, I'll stay in the George V.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-11-18 03:52
By the way, Selmer Privileges I tried were also almost as consistent as the Buffets. Though I haven't tried as many of those - about four if I remember right.
If you do go to Paris, possibly the best option is to choose the instrument at the factory and you can buy it in any store you want anyway. I think prices can vary between different stores there. Also some are nicer than others (at least the ones I visited or spoke with).
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Author: DougR
Date: 2007-11-18 14:24
Clarnibass--
Yeah, I had always thought that while you can try out instruments at the factory, the actual purchase MUST be handled through a retailer. Otherwise the factory would be competing with its own dealers, which (to put it mildly) would be mutually disadvantaging to all concerned. For instance, while Vandoren has a small showroom here in the city where you can try out mouthpieces, the actual sale ALWAYS gets booked to one of the local designated Vandoren retailers. (I believe it's done on a rotating basis).
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Author: swood
Date: 2007-11-18 18:04
I'd love to read the Lowenstern article as I am shopping for a low C horn, too. I can't follow the link, though, as his site says that it is password protected. Any ideas how I can read his article?
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2007-11-19 01:53
Kessler's Music has sold both of their Selmer (Paris) Bb Privilége bass clarinets Model 67 at the low price mentioned above. But they can probably get some more and it will still be under $8000. However the guys/dealers that go to NAMM expect a bump in price from Selmer next year. Don't know if this is hype or not, but it certainly is something to think about.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2007-11-19 02:38
Brand new bass clarinets are very rare right now, and it seems like every distributor has a long waiting list. I would love to have six or seven 1193's here all prepped and ready for tryout. I have had ten 1193's on order for a year. Unfortunately, all anyone can get is one or two at a time, and they disappear immediately.
Eventually the shortage situation will work its way out. The best thing to do right now is to find a distributor that you trust and enjoy working with and get on their waiting list.
Remember, every reputable vendor has a trial policy, so if you are "allotted" a bass clarinet that you don't like, send it back, and wait for the next one to come along.
If anyone has questions, I would be happy to answer them here or offline.
Walter Grabner
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2007-11-19 03:28
I purchased my 1193 in july of 06, right before there was a serious price increase. I was informed that there were at the time, two bass clarinets in the USA. I got one, and maybe im just lucky, but it is an extraordinary instrument. Got it through frederick weiner.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2007-11-19 14:28
The shortage situation is absolutely nutty. The guy I talked to at Weiner (that's the American retailer I tried first, because he's somewhat local) said the horns fly out the door almost as soon as they come in, frequently pre-sold. I asked him if anyone ever sent a bass back as "unacceptable." He laughed and said, "Uh--nah."
Just doing back-of-the-envelope calculation, it looks like the prices are low enough in Paris to just about pay for the plane ticket there & back--a good alternative if you wanted to try out a bunch of horns, had the time (and the euros, of course) and wouldn't mind bumping around the countryside with an expensive instrument as part of your luggage.
On the other hand, since the instruments are fairly consistent in quality/adjustment, and there are highly reputable dealers here who do a good setup & prep on the horns (Weiner, Mr. Grabner, and possibly Muncy and the chap in Nevada too, although I haven't personally checked them out), you'd pay a little more for the convenience of buying stateside (in money and in patience), versus the additional monetary AND non-monetary costs of the trip to Paris (time, logistics, stress). Factor that over the life of the instrument and the enjoyment derived therefrom, and it kind of looks like a wash to me.
YMMV, of course!
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Author: crazy karlos
Date: 2007-11-30 14:39
Well, someone did drop exactly nine grand in my lap. That's nine thousand South African rand, a pension payout (not that I'm pensionable yet, this was a legacy from a year sub-editing at a certain agricultural periodical here in Johannesburg).
That's enough for a deposit on a bass clari. I've had my heart set on a bass clari since 1982, when I first heard the British multi-instrumentalist John Surman's album, The Amazing Adventures of Simon Simon. I've done a search on this site, no one seems to have mentioned Surman. He is really something else, I think, real fusion of jazz and classics. I got his latest CD, Coruscating, with a string quartet, an amazing upright bass player, and him on contrabass and bass clarinet, bari sax etc. Quite austere, but very beautiful.
Nonetheless: 25 years is enough time to wait. The pension fund wouldn't pay me, there was a problem with the Financial Services Board here querying their surplus apportionment figures. I started a vicious e-mail campaign to get my money, which actually reached the front pages of the national press. Pension fund pays its members what it owes them! Big news in South Africa.
But it all gave me plenty of time to think about how I would buy a bass clarinet. And the answer is Google. And that's how I found this site. I've been lurking here for about three months. It's a total treat for me.
So, just for the record, I went and put down a deposit of nine grand on a Yamaha YCL221 II on Tuesday. It will only arrive in April. Plenty of time for me to prepare. The full price is R18,230 -- that's about US$2,680 as far as I can see today. I spoke to the dealer who imports the things, said that was a good deal, an "aggressive price" were his words. I can get it cheaper over the internet, but then there are absolutely no guarantees, no recourse if there are any problems. Got to play safe with such a dangerous axe.
I bought an old Boosey and Hawkes Regent in 1982, so that I could start practising. I've got a Buffet E11 now, but I still spend most of my time on the B&H, I'm always scared to practise too much on my good horn, I save it for performances.
So thanks to everyone who has commented on bass clarinets, just incredible the amount of thought and info available here. I've searched up and down this forum, and I'm sure I've made the right choice for me. I have great faith in those Japanese technicians. I'll let you know how it goes, when it comes.
Last night I was at a music shop & found a recording of a live performance of Eric Dolphy with Charles Mingus. You can say what you like about Dolphy's tone, but I literally had goosebumps at the solo. Incredible expression. Then a devastating version of Stormy Weather on alto sax.
Anyone's free to step up to the plate, and play Stormy Weather. But you can tell someone who's been there.
Lurker aboard!
Post Edited (2007-11-30 14:42)
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