 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2007-11-14 18:54
A year ago I was studying with a Ph.D. in clarinet performance. One of the assignments consisted of long runs of 16ths, continuing for 12 measures in 4/4. To facilitate proper breathing I left out an inconsequential 16 here and there. She was not pleased.
I haven't run this by my new teacher, yet -- can't for a couple weeks -- but my thinking on it now is this: She was wrong.
1. You must never let breathing interfere with the rhythmic flow. Therefore to leave out a note that won't be missed is the proper approach. This is especially true, since much of our study material is transcription from string studies, or tries to emulate violin studies.
2. I am using the Kroepesch Book III for my scale studies recently, for they are interesting, with fun articulations, arpeggios tossed in, and encompass the entire range. Each is 16 measures in four sections-- Tonic, relative minor, Sub Dominant, Tonic. It seems omitting the last 16th that concludes the section is the way to go. The flow isn't compromised, and the note isn't missed. (This isn't a problem with the Klose scales, for you can just clip the eighth that starts the scale, but when they are all 16ths....)
Is this a breakthrough for me, or am I wrong?
vJoe
(amateur)
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Author: davyd
Date: 2007-11-14 20:27
If you're playing an audition, it seems like you'd better have every single note in place no matter what. That's a good goal to aim for anyway. But how realistic is it? Are you "wrong" if you don't attain it? I can't say.
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Author: Philcoman
Date: 2007-11-14 20:44
The first time I had to play "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" I realized it was an unbroken string of triplets with nowhere to breathe. The real-world advice I got from several professionals was to find places where a note wouldn't be missed, and work with my accompaniest to make it work. Of course, that's real-world. Auditions are entirely different from real life.
"If you want to do something, you do it, and handle the obstacles as they come." --Benny Goodman
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Author: 2E
Date: 2007-11-14 22:50
I don't know if I'd call it a breakthough but its certainly not an error. Playing continuous 16ths for 12 measures would be very tough in one breath, maybe you could speed it up to make it easier? I often have to miss a note to snatch a quick breath but as long as you pick it up in the right place without interupting the flow, that should be ok. Just what I think.
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-11-14 23:05
Quote:
A year ago I was studying with a Ph.D. in clarinet performance. One of the assignments consisted of long runs of 16ths, continuing for 12 measures in 4/4. To facilitate proper breathing I left out an inconsequential 16 here and there. She was not pleased.
So, what did she expect you to do instead - Pass out? What was her reasoning behind this exercise? And what was her solution to the breathing issue?
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Author: srattle
Date: 2007-11-15 00:51
It's a little hard to comment not knowing the exact study/ies you were playing, or tempo of it, but I would assume if it's Kroepsch, then they are pretty lyrical, and you could probably musically find a decent solution for a breath without letting any note go.
Look at the f minor Brahms sonata, the coda in the 1st mvt.
There is not really any place for a breath, but most people do have to breath somewhere in that minute of music. . .Can you leave notes out in a Brahms sonata? No, so you have to use rubato, time, to allow for a breath.
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2007-11-15 01:21
Don't miss a note. Period.
If you need to take a deeper breath to continue, do so. It's an exercise. Missing a note has no excuse. Especially since you have no accompaniment to worry about falling behind.
In the words of my own instructor, I'd rather hear a person take a longer breath and not miss a note and do an excellent job on the exercise than a) Have them literally skip notes and b) do a crappy job with their airflow and sqawk all over because they didn't take a big enough breath.
Once you can play all the notes perfectly, then we can start working on shorter breaths to make it work.
We're winds, and we're human. Humans need to breathe, first and foremost. We're winds playing string parts. It's tough, but we're still doing it today, aren't we?
CA
PS: Still, your instructor might have been better to explain things rather than just say "Nope. It's wrong"
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-11-15 05:14
Depends on the context and the situation.
If a passage has 234892 consecutive eighth notes, a judgment call needs to be made as to whether to miss one, botch the tempo, or clip one short and hope you get enough air. Sometimes there is no breath long enough to play a passage as written, especially if it wasn't written for clarinet, or if it was written by a person who apparently has zero familiarity with the instrument.
I've heard performances where the integrity and musicality of the piece is greatly diminished by an insistence on playing every single note on the page. (Worse yet, an insistence on all-the-notes-or-bust can lead to a lousy performance AND missed notes)
If the contract says "don't miss any notes," then yeah, don't miss em. Don't imagine that's spelled out too often.
Now, if you can work out a way to not miss them, by all means. Putting that as your number 1 criterion, I believe, is a mistake.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-11-15 06:21
I once heard a bass clarinetist play the Prelude of Bach's Cello Suite 1. It was great until he suddenly stopped and took more than a second to take a breath. He did this at many places in the movement, but he played all the notes very well. I think the flow is destroyed when performed like that. Better to take many smaller breaths or to leave out a note, IMO.
Post Edited (2007-11-15 07:37)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2007-11-15 12:37
This is a phrasing question. Except in the purest of pure studies (which might have been your teacher's intention!), a series of 25647 quavers (1/8 notes) will have phrasing. A breath during that time will be a glitch in the phrasing. There will be a musical place to put this glitch. It may take many days of study to find it, but it'll be there somewhere. I might expect a note to be cut shorter than its fellows. A missed note would be unfortunate... but I can see how it could be musically correct in certain circumstances.
In a large section it's common to share the breaths out to give an /appearance/ of seamlessness (I'll breathe on the 1st beat, you breathe on the 3rd... etc.)
Above all the clarinet is a lyrical instrument. Unless specifically instructed otherwise, I'd assume the instrument is an extension of the voice. Singers phrase and take breaths, so act likewise.
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Author: Peter Spriggs
Date: 2007-11-15 12:45
Once while I was making some barrels for Gervase DePeyer I had a discussion wuth him asking how he got through the long run of sixteenths in the Spohr 1 concerto. He said he left out a note at the bottom of a run and have listenned to the recording since and it is not noticeable. He explained there was no nother way to do it. As a matter of interest, he said in those days that you had one go at making a recording, not multiple takes until it is right! Pretty impressive!
Peter
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2007-11-15 12:47
The study was the Rose 40 #19 and as I recall we were doing it about mm of 88. When I left out the F# at the end of measure 5 to breath, she stopped me in measure 6, with a "No, no, no, no, no." I asked where I was supposed to breath. She said there was fine. I questioned "Just breath faster?" She said, "No, just come back in faster." Unfortunately, she didn't demonstrate for me.
In his Method, Russianoff advises to question everything, even from the experts. I think I'd rather leave out an inconsequential note than destroy the flow with either an inappropriate rubato, or too shallow a breath to properly support the music.
Although I've seen in one or two of my method books -- Oppeneheim? -- recommendation to leave out such a note, I dropped employing such till now. Haven't gotten far enough into the Russianoff to see if he addresses it. A week from Monday I have another lesson, and will see what my current teacher says.
vJoe
(amateur)
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Author: Mark G Simon
Date: 2007-11-15 13:26
If you're playing an etude at a lesson, the primary goal is to demonstrate to the teacher your facility in playing the notes. It is no crime to interrupt the music for a breath. Your teacher knows you have to breathe. He or she doesn't know that you've mastered the notes until you play them correctly.
Incidentally, in no. 19 in the Rose 40 Studies (Moderato, C major, quarter = 104, correct?), you would be well advised not to play an F# at the end of the 5th measure, since the note is actually F natural. But that F natural is the 7th of the 3rd inversion V7 chord, and needs to be played in order to lead smoothly to the third of the tonic chord in the next measure. If you have to leave a note out, choose a different note.
(perhaps your edition of the Rose puts them in a different order?)
Clarinetist, composer, arranger of music for clarinet ensemble
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2007-11-15 14:38
I've never forgotten Rosario Mazzeos comment made many times during those morning seminars/ He would say completely straight-faced,
"Breathe Saturday".
There was wisdom there, humor as well
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2007-11-16 13:30
Thanks, all, for your input on this.
Both professionals whom I admire and amateurs offered their insight on this. I appreciate it. My count comes out with
3 suggesting each note must be played
6 permitting a note left out, and
5 neutral (context).
(Of course my mention of F# was a hasty mis-speak.)
Since I know me, and know how I react to feeling my body short on air -- causes anxiety which adversely affects my overall playing -- for the present I'm going to continue marking the breaths with the standard comma, and marking inconsequential notes by putting ( ) around them to indicate 'leave out'. Perhaps my teacher will approve, or perhaps he won't. We'll see. (He studied for several years with Russianoff, as some of the responders did.)
Best wishes,
vJoe
(amateur)
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