 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-11-07 12:22
Hey, what humidity level do you set for your automatic humidifiers? I currently have mine set at 45%, but wondering if I should maybe bump it up to 50 or 55.
What is the ideal level for Clarinets?
And, if you travel to play do you add a humidifier to the case that you normally don't use as the studio has humidity or do you not worry about it?(going to a gig for instance)
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-11-07 14:39
David,
I really cranked the humidity two winters ago and had mold form in some places (windows, sills, not on/in clarinet!).
I wouldn't go above 50% unless you get some seriously cold weather.
I do not humidify the case or instrument as I travel, but I also do not regularly travel outside of my general weather zone.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2007-11-07 15:24
A related question - what's the safe temperature range for storing clarinets?
My home usually ranges between 62 and 72 degrees during this time of year. The clarinets feel pretty chilly when I get them out. I slowly warm them with my hands and let them adjust to playing temperature of course. But I'm wondering what's too cold for storage.
Thanks,
Steve
Edit - Just did an archive search and could only find stuff that alluded to my question, nothing definitive
Post Edited (2007-11-07 15:41)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-11-07 17:05
It isn't the storing, but the rapidity of the heating up that can cause the real damage. You could probably go down to 55 degrees with no problem, but if you heat the Clarinet up quickly you certainly would have a problem.
any other takes on this?
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-11-07 17:27
We use a space heater for the portion of the house I live in, and during these months I do keep all the instruments that are getting played near (within 15 feet) the heat source.
The heat source itself was my primary reason for getting a serious humidifier for the winter months (as well as winter itself!).
David's right on the money about how the instrument is heated (and cooled for that matter). If the instrument is cold to the touch (and you need to play) you have to take greater care...If you've just been playing and you leave it in your car overnight, you're bound for the same heartbreak.
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2007-11-07 17:28)
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2007-11-07 17:31
Well that's reassuring - they've been cold lately, but I'm always careful about gradually warming them up before playing. It doesn't seem like I have anything to worry about.
Thanks,
Steve
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-11-07 17:59
Steve...
You should be careful about warming them up! It is asking the wood to expand (or contract) more quickly than it can safely that is the primary contributor to cracking.
You've been at the right thing, just keep doing what you're doing!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-11-07 22:01
I usually keep a sponge in the case all year 'round except the rainy season. Has anyone tried the Rico reedvitalizers in the case?- seems like it would work well.
I keep a color coded temperture sticker on the clarinet near the register key. I check the color as I warm the body and only start when I get to about 22 degrees C (80ish deg F I think).
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-11-07 22:44
The reed holder with the vitalizer works quite well as it seals and keeps the humidity level constant. Only problem is that the plastic clip which holds the holder in place (what holds the reeds and seperates it from the case) is plastic and quite fragile. It's not a big deal if that piece breaks as the holder will still hold the reeds perfectly well, but the insert with the reeds will be loose. Again, it doesn't affect the usage of the holder, but Rico should make the clip metal or at least thicker so that it won't break so easily. The Vandoren reed holder is a lot sturdier, but doesn't have room for the vitalizer pack - you could put the vandoren holder into one of the vitalizer reed bags like I do and it would work really well (I have a custom wooden reed case that I got at Backun's shop and I put that in the vitalizer bag).
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2007-11-08 00:47
I own a Vandoren Hygrocase, and to be honest, it could be that I'm just young but I don't really feel much of a difference or maybe there have been changes in the way it affects the reed that I just have not been aware of.
But I can tell you that it's very accurate at telling you the humidity levels.
The only really annoying thing is that it's necessary to use those plastic cases to put your reeds in. It could be just a business strategy so you get persuaded into buying their reeds just so you can use those plastic cases :P
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-11-08 16:00
And you might get two or three good reeds in the process! ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif) ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
Putting on my flame-resistant clothes.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2007-11-08 16:01)
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Author: jazz17
Date: 2007-11-08 20:34
Here in the Northeast (upstate NY), during this time of year, I make it a point to leave orange peels in my case until they dry up. (Usually 3-5 days)
Not sure how much extra humidity is added to the case but I know I am fighting off the beginning of some winter colds at the same time I am treating my horns to a bit more needed humidity. Peace, Tom
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-11-09 19:01
I like to try to keep the house humidity at about 50 percent in winter. My violin-playing husband and all his chamber music co-conspirators keep Dampits ("plastic worms") in their stringed instrument cases. I don't use extra humidity-boosters in wind instrument cases because I think the small amount of condensation that remains after swabbing is enough with 50 percent humidity--and because I've bought too many clarinets and other instruments with major mold, mildew and critter infestations.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-11-09 19:14
We usually store such stuff in the socks drawer or the bedroom closet. More or less constant temperature, and wool is an excellent humidity and temperature buffer. A teabag in the case does the rest.
--
Ben
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2007-11-10 03:43
I've tried orange peels and they molded on me. Now I keep a hygrometer in each case, and use a slightly damp rag when the humidity gets lower than about 45%.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-11-10 06:50
I've owned about 15 blackwood and rosewood clarinets in my 47 years of playing, and never worried about humidity or temperature other than to make sure there were no rapid changes or that I didn't play an extremely cold instrument without letting it warm up some. I never worried about humidity at all.
I've never had a cracked clarinet. The worst that has ever happened is that a barrel ring became a bit loose...once.
I really don't understand this obsession with humidifying instruments (or reeds, for that matter), especially with humidifiers in the case. Seems to me that, if blackwood responds quickly to humidity changes, which I really doubt, putting orange peel or fancy, expensive humidity gizmos in the case would be the worst thing you could do! Open the case in a dry room, and you have immediate "humidity shock."
As far as temperature goes, no doubt someone will come up with a temperature controller for instrument cases, with tubes sewn in to some sort of case cover that circulate warmed or cooled fluid over the case to keep it at a constant temperature. (Thermostat-controlled and battery operated, of course.) So then, when you move the instrument quickly into a room that's a zillion degrees colder or warmer and open the case, you get "temperature shock" cracking.
This, to me, is another one of those "to oil or not to oil" things. Lots of opinion, little scientific or empirical evidence.
If you want to know what to do to avoid problems with humidity and temperature, ask any fine furniture collector or curator of a museum furniture collection.
They will tell you that furniture of old did well, not because the wood was kept within any particular temperature or humidity ranges, but because the wood wasn't stressed by abrupt changes--that the wood was not harmed because the environment it was in gradually changed and the wood followed--gradually--with it. It was only when central heating and blasting air conditioning came to be that furniture started cracking and splitting and so forth.
Why would anyone want to intentionally introduce "mechanisms" that create precisely the conditions that should be avoided, probably doing no real good, but potentially cause real harm?
I guess I'm a Luddite. I just don't get it.
(Then there's the question of the effects of acidic and mold-encouraging fruit peelings on the bore and pads.)
Cheers!
B.
Post Edited (2007-11-10 06:53)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2007-11-10 08:58
Hi B. Where do you live? I'd like to move there as soon as possible. I get loose rings on my clarinets every Winter here is Switzerland!
And in the orchestra pit where I play it's warm because of the heating, but the humidity is 30%. You should come try my reeds sometime :-)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-11-10 09:46
Hmm. I live in the same town but for some reasons I never had loose rings, but I don't play in pits. Shouldn't there be a humidifier at least before the musicians arrive? 30% isn't just bad for the reeds, but for lips and skin as well.
(I do put the mpc cap on while our director is noodling eg the sax section, or I keep breathing out through the horn during those twelve bar rests)
But today's going to be nasty. Never played in snowfall.
--
Ben
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2007-11-10 10:11
It would be lovely if they could do something about the humidity. You'd think that in a town with this much money they might be able to shell out a few francs for something like that??
Ben- can you believe it's snowing already?!
Post Edited (2007-11-10 10:12)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-11-10 10:57
Yep, I think a humidifier (vaporizer) should be affordable. Why don't you simply ask the house technician to install a vaporizer some hours before a gig?
--
Ben
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-11-10 13:08
That's why I use a humistat for adding any humidity which isn't from the humidifier in my studio (if I travel, and for all of my students).
Those things are better by FAR than an orange peel and the dampit. Trouble with the dampits is that they give off way too much humidity too quickly so in the 24 hours that they go from wet to bone dry the first several hours they give off too much, and then too little.
The Humistat gives off just the right amount constantly and it lasts about a week before filling it again. For under $10 you can't beat it. It holds a lot more water than any sponge inside a film canister. This is made of lexan around cotton and holds several ounces of water yet it small so it fits in any case easily. I use the #1 model.
disclaimer - I'm friends now with the owner of that company. I wasn't before I used the product and met him as a loyal customer of his.
http://www.humistat.com
I'm writing him now to tell him to be a sponsor of this place.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-11-11 05:16
Liquorice,
Right now I live in Virginia, but I lived in South Dakota for four years before I came here, and despite really awful heating, even -30 degree F. winter temperatures for days and days caused no problems, and I wasn't even running a humidifier in my house.
I certainly expected loose barrel and bell rings, but that never happened. Go figure. The only problems I ever had were keys that would bind a little when my Bb soprano was cold, but once warmed a little, that went away. (I suppose there is such a thing as too-close swedging.)
Cheers.
B.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-11-11 13:17
Lots of good ideas/opinions, mine is , I don't become alarmed unless the "ambient/home" Relative humidity falls below 35%, then I moisten the sponges in the pill bottles, and check for loose barrel/bell rings. Here in "River City", OK, the Global-Warming activity [temps and rainfall] seems [to me] to have changed our weather patterns, and not for the best . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-12-12 11:42
David,
What humidity level do you like inside the case?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-12-12 12:33
I like around 40% in the case. I have my room set to 45% with my cases being right next to the humidifing unit. On top of my Clarinets I have a humidity gauge (wireless) which I can see from where I sit when I teach.
It's a balance between not having so much that your springs rust, and not so little that the rings get loose, cracks, etc.
We keep the house around 66 degrees in the winter. When I teach from the lights the room gets to about 69.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: skennedy
Date: 2007-12-13 03:23
Here in Alaska I'm using 3 humistats (2 number 1's and 1 number 3) in my double case and I am just barely able to get the humidity to slightly above 40%. i'm wondering what will happen when the temps get to -50 to -60 F and a pan of boiling water will vaporize when thrown into the air never to reach the ground. Maybe I was better off when I didn't use anything in my double case, but I feel better now that I am using something.
Steve
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-12-13 11:54
Jeez, maybe put a whole peeled orange with the fruit and all for that climate in the case  (kidding, but jeez!)
I assume that you have a good case cover yes? Possibly you could put your Clarinet case into a ziplock storage bag which is semi air tight. That could maybe help keep in the humidity?
I'd also use a room humidifier near your case. That would do it.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-12-14 17:23
This was discussed at length here:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=251245&t=251215
B.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-12-14 18:13
Sorry bmcgar,
There isn't any reference to humidity in that entire thread...it's about coming back to playing after a long hiatus.
I haven't been down to B'burg since the first game of the season...how's the weather?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Aequore
Date: 2007-12-14 20:49
Maybe ''Bmcgar'' is right?.....Maybe we shouldnt worry about buying fancy or expensive gizmos. We coud just let it be, and let nature and the wood take their course. Funny, I didnt know because of temperature, you could get loose barrel rings???...Ive never had that happen to me untill most recently I purchased a vintage clarinet online and it was arriving from way up North. When i open the case ''room temperature'' ofcourse. I saw the loose ring.. what does that exactly mean. And how can we detect cracks. Sorry I sound novice at all this but I have never had a problem in regards. I would just like to be informed for gigs outside of town and at this time of year.
Pete
Post Edited (2007-12-14 20:51)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-12-14 21:25
Aequore:
When the wood has been stored cold and has subsequently dried out entirely the wood can shrink to the point that the rings slip off. In this condition you must play the horn for short amounts of time only to rehydrate the wood and to prevent it from swelling so quickly that it cracks. Also helps to put a shim of paper in between the ring and the wood.
You detect cracks by looking for them, especially around tone holes, posts, etc... on the upper joint. A crack looks like a much more definitive line of grain.
(in complete aside...a girl showed up for District Band last weekend and was having a little difficulty with her horn. She brought it to the Music&Arts table to have it fixed...where it was noticed that her upper joint had cracked, twice. The kind of jagged cracks that make one wince. Yikes!)
You've never had this problem because the temperature differential in south Florida is about 24 degrees. Right?
Just letting things be and letting nature take it's course works well in places that are so stable.
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2007-12-14 21:26)
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Author: Aequore
Date: 2007-12-14 21:30
Im in florida for vacation, I currently live in New York. Though im here for the holidays. This State seems perfect for clarinets and wooden instruments, as to the weather aint bad at all!
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-12-14 22:39
You're right, New York would be another bag of precipitaion entirely. Enjoy your vacation!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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