 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2007-10-05 20:08
i rcvd the thumb saddle and im disappointed. not in the product, but i just cant seem to get the right hand position no matter what. i thought this would help but it doesnt. when i do get the right hand position, i do something to my arm and shoulder and thumb that causes a lot of pain. i had to stop playing for 3 days last week becuz i was in so much pain form obsessively trying last sunday. i cant seem to not let the side trill keys not rest on the side of my rigt index finger. my teacher is trying to help me but nothing is working and im getting really frustrated. i know that if i want to advance i need the correct position. i dont know what to do.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2007-10-05 20:46
Consider the Kooiman Etude thumb rest (http://www.tonkooiman.com/). It has the great virtue of being widely adjustable, much more so than in the ~ 3/4" of adjustable thumb rests. It's also very effective in relieving thumb pain.
It might work for you - costs about $30.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2007-10-05 20:51
but will it help with hand position - not just pain. supposedly the thumb saddle was supposed to help with hand position - maybe i just have a defective hand.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-10-05 21:07
Janlynn --
What is it about your hand position that you don't think is correct? I.e., what are you trying to change, or create, that is difficult for you?
Are you creating muscular tension in your hand or fingers somehow?
Here's something my teachers have had me do: let your arms fall naturally to the side of your body, in a floppy, almost rag-doll fashion. Now, shake out your hands and wrists. Let them really flop around, and then stop. Observe the position of your hands at this point. Without changing anything, lift them into place as they would be on your instrument -- without the instrument.
Then do the same thing, but with the instrument.
Your fingers, via this exercise, should fall into the natural, relaxed curve you need.
I think one mistake we sometimes make, in approaching our instruments, is to always think we have to DO something. Sometimes we don't have to so much DO it, as to just let it happen. Breathing/breath control is another area where many folks -- especially adult beginners -- just plain try too hard.
Maybe you are trying too hard?
Susan
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2007-10-05 21:40
i can get the postion without the instrument fine. but when i hold the clarinet, in order to get the same position, the thumbrest is too much on the tip of my thumb, my shoulder goes too forward. the position that feels natural to me, my fingers are a little more flat and slightly too far over and the trill keys rest on the side of my finger a little. but i have good thumb support with no pain and no shoulder pain. but my teacher doesnt like it. she wants my fingers rounder and i just cant do it unless i support the clarinet another way - with my legs or something. maybe i should try to take a pic to show what i mean. ive been playing for a long time - i have some bad habits to break. im wondering if i can achieve correct hand position since ive been playing many many years with the wrong one.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-10-06 00:32
I would try to use neckstrap if you play for long time and also check if your shoulders are stiff when you play that could lead through the arm to your hand.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-10-06 00:54
ditto on the neckstrap. it sounds like your having some serious issues with having any long term weight on your thumb/wrist. a thumbrest is designed to shift pain off the tip of the thumb. regardless of the thumb holder, any thumbrest will just disperse the weight somewhere else onto your arm. a neckstrap will take the weight to your neck. hope you don't have neck problems =)
good luck with that
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-10-06 01:56
I would suggest (if you are not already foing so) to schedule a lessonm or two with a good teacher to see if you are in the correct position when playing the instrument. Clarinet playing should not cause you any pain.
'After a couple of lessons where you seem to have nailed the correct position, you might want to check with an orthopedist to see If something in your bones/musculature is making you have these difficulties. I have a bad spine, a shoulder that came apart more than 20 years ago, and other problems, but I can still play without the pain you seem to be experiencing.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-10-06 03:06
janlynn- you say that you can hold the clarinet with no problem but your teacher doesn't like it?
as I recall, you said you have rather small hands, right? Does your teacher have small hands? If not, then they shouldn't really insist that you hold the clarinet like them. There is no such thing as 'correct'. If you have a way that you can hold the clarinet AND play well AND do it all without pain, then you have good technique for your body.
The result is what matters. Try telling left handed people that they hold a pen 'wrong'.
Post Edited (2007-10-06 05:02)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-10-06 04:27
Hmm...It's hard to say for sure without a pic. I have a "hitchhiker's thumb" and it all but makes a "normal" RH position impossible. I have gotten lazy over the last 15 years and now play with my thumb rest at or beyond my knuckle. Beyond as in closer to my hand. I do have longer fingers though.
Your teacher may be concerned about the resting on the trill keys because they are easy to nudge enough to make a squeak-causing opened pad.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-10-06 12:40
You don't say what make horn and type of thumb rest you are using. Also, you don't give any details about the reversal....did you do it yourself etc etc. I can't imagine anyone having the problems you mention after simply reversing a standard thumb rest. Maybe your teacher is wrong.
Bob Draznik
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2007-10-06 13:18
i have a lyrique clarinet. adjustable thumb rest with the thumb saddle on it.
i really would like to think she is wrong. but her concept makes sense. that is, i am wasting movement with my incorrect position (flat fingers). one of my goals is to improve speed and she says the "correct" position (rounded fingers) will improve that. as far as the trill keys leaning on the side of my finger, she doesnt like it - but it does not cause a problem for me. i dont squeak becuz of it and i can easily play Bb or do a C to D trill or A to Bb trill.
i have given up on the thumb saddle. that big piece of rubber between my thumb and the body of the clarinet makes it feel like my thumb is numb.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-10-06 14:57
Oh, so you are referring to the Ridenour thumb rest saddle and not just a plain old thumb rest.
Reversing a plain thumb rest is not uncommon but reversing a Ridenour saddle is a different situation....I guess.
Bob Draznik
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-10-06 17:59
Quote:
i really would like to think she is wrong. but her concept makes sense. that is, i am wasting movement with my incorrect position (flat fingers). one of my goals is to improve speed and she says the "correct" position (rounded fingers) will improve that. as far as the trill keys leaning on the side of my finger, she doesnt like it - but it does not cause a problem for me. i dont squeak becuz of it and i can easily play Bb or do a C to D trill or A to Bb trill.
How is your right arm placement when you play? Is the elbow in close to your side? Do you play with the horn fairly close to your body? If so, try experimenting with rotating your arms so your elbows are further away from your body. It is important that you rotate the arms from the shoulders, but do not raise the shoulders in anyway. You may then notice that the clarinet placement is uncomfortable, so try angling it out a bit more. This should also put less downward pressure from the thumbrest onto the thumb joint.
There is more to hand placement on clarinet than just the size of the hands...length of ones arms also figures into the angle ones hands approach the clarinet when playing. While the length of the clarinet remains the same, our bodies have different proportions. I believe most people can approach a good hand placement, but have to learn how to adjust their bodies (posture and arms) to do so.
Good luck!
Post Edited (2007-10-06 18:00)
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Author: Robyn_765
Date: 2007-10-06 21:30
Hi Janlynn
I have been using the Kooiman Etude thumb rest for a couple of months now, and I think it does help with rounding the fingers of the right hand, and it does not cause pain (I bought it to relieve pain, not help with positioning though). I have not tried the Ridenour thumb rest, but I am satisfied with the Etude. I have fairly small hands as well.
Now, if you have the money, I've heard even better things about the Kooiman Maestro; I think it is because it has extra positions to make it work for more shapes, sizes, etc...or so I've read here.
Best luck in figuring this out. I know it must be frustrating!
-- Robyn
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Author: Philcoman
Date: 2007-10-09 18:41
I don't know if whether of these ideas will help, but here are my two cents:
My daughter has very small hands. I found an inexpensive Amati student model that has a very nice sound and is made for smaller hands. If you get a chance to try one of these (I believe it's a ACL-201), it might help you decide if the size of your hands/fingers is affecting you.
In my own experience, I found that I had trouble with fingering and support until I happened to turn the mouthpiece just a little bit counter-clockwise. For some reason this adjustment helped my support and made my fingering much easier. Almost instantly my speed increased and I had less fatigue. It's worth turning the mouthpiece this way and that a bit to experiment. If your teacher objects, refer him/her to Sherman Friedland's comments on this subject: http://clarinet.cc/archives/2005/09/a_new_discovery.html
I do hope that you find a solution to your problem soon. Best of luck!
"If you want to do something, you do it, and handle the obstacles as they come." --Benny Goodman
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2007-10-11 22:36
well, ive discovered if i really really concentrate i CAN get the right hand position and keep it for a few minutes until i start concentrating on something else. so it is achieveable. i just have to keep working on it.
as for the thumb saddle. it didnt help me. i think it made things worse. but then, i wasnt using it for pain, i got to try and correct my hand position.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2007-10-12 14:03
Janlynn:
Put the thumb saddle away for a few months. Come back to it when you want to try it again. Worked for me! I sort of liked it at first but felt it didn't provide what I wanted. I tried it again 2-3 months later & now I won't play without it. Need to get a couple more for other clarinet & spare.
YMMV, MOO!!
Matt
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