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Author: daz
Date: 2007-09-30 22:35
Our daughter is playing on a E11 now and is more than ready for the step up to the Buffet R13. We're looking at some older R13's - mostly made in the mid 70's. I admit we don't know a whole lot about older clarinets. Is there a point where old is too old? Do they loose their tone easily? I read in another thread that older instruments can loose their 'ring' and may need a different barrel and/or bell. On the other hand, we've read that these were the Buffet prime years for this instrument and that these clarinets have beautiful tone compared to later models. Can anyone give me some insight on older R13's - what to look for, what not to look for, etc.? The ones we've been considering have been overhauled with new pads, corks, adjustments, no evidence of repairs/cracks, etc. Still...I want to make sure that the money we plunk down now we won't regret later. I don't want to be kicking ourselves that we should have bought a newer instrument. Thank you for any help you can send our way.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-09-30 22:56
You would really need somebody with experience (repair person!!) who can look at the prospective Clarinet. An older instrument can easily have keys which are "worn out" where the screw connects with the key and need lots of work to make the instrument play as well as a newer one would.
Personally if I had the money I'd get a new one.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-09-30 23:12
Old or new, there are artist quality and inferior ones, for all makes and models. Try before buy.
richard smith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-09-30 23:18
As for needing a different barrel and bell, there are loads of old clarinets around that are still being played with their original barrels and bells, so there's no pressing need to get a new barrel or bell for the sake of it if the originals are fine.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-10-01 00:08
Unless an R-13 has been played professionally and has very noticeable wear, one from the 70s will be perfectly usable. Mine are from the early 70s and play as well now as they ever did. Also, Buffet made good instruments in the 70s -- better than the ones from the 80s.
However, their quality control today is the best it's ever been, and you would be best off with a new one.
The most important thing to check on any clarinet you're considering is intonation, which has always been variable from instrument to instrument with the R-13. You should not buy at auction or by mail order without an option, IN WRITING, to return the instrument for any reason or no reason at all. In fact, you should buy only from someone like Walter Grabner, who's an expert player, and expert repairman and who prepares and resells R-13s. See http://www.clarinetxpress.com/forsale.html.
If you can't afford an R-13, a professional quality mouthpiece and barrel will make her E-11 play very close to an R-13. In fact, when I put my mouthpiece and barrel on a plastic Vito, I had a hard time telling it from my R-13. Walter, for example, will supply a mouthpiece for $185 and a barrel for $150, and other makers will do the same. That plus a good going over to make all the pads seal tight will make the E-11 play really well.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: nickma
Date: 2007-10-01 08:11
I play one from the late 70s and it's among the best instruments I've ever tried.
Intonation is superb, but as Ken says, this can vary by instrument. Definitely buy from someone who a) knows what intonation is and b) is either a dealer like Walter or who has intimate knowledge of the instrument they are selling and can guarantee that it plays well in tune with itself.
As someone who restores clarinets, there is no doubt if you can get a good second hand instrument you'll never lose money if bought at a fair price, and it can be as good or better than a new one.
On the other hand, with new instruments you can insist on playtesting several in a local store and picking the one you like best. It also means that you can swap barrels and bells around between instruments if you have a handful of R13s in the dealer's practice room, which can make a marked difference. Personally if buying new I would only go with a dealer who can supply several at the same time to playtest. That's part of what you're paying for.
Nick
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-10-01 13:29
Here's my guess - you are looking on Ebay and trying to strike a bargain.
That could be a big mistake. Some clarinets there are fine, but many aren't at all. Worn keywork IS an issue. So is poor intonation - you really must try the Clarinet and have a professional (repairman, not just the teacher as a good repairman can see a lot more defects than the average teacher can) check it out.
Sometimes on the auction sites you can return it, but often you can't so buyer beware big time.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2007-10-01 13:30)
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Author: daz
Date: 2007-10-01 13:55
I completely understand that I need to have a highly qualified repairman look at the instrument and not just a teacher. So, that brings me to another question. Can anyone recommend someone in the Atlanta region that I should bring it to? I've gone onto the Buffet site and can see the list of dealers but for this inspection, I want to pick the right person. Thank you to all of you for your responses so far. I truly appreciate it.
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-10-01 15:27
Some (maybe most or all?) dealers won't let you swap barrels and bells of new clarinets before buying, so I wouldn't do it. The other ones are then made inferior.
Old clarinets can be nice...have a teacher check tuning, tone, playability. Also have repair tech inspect it for problems. Make sure the price is right, too. Probably less than $1000 for one that old, unless it's been fixed up by a super tech and is a really superior instrument.
Do also make sure a professional mouthpiece is acquired before a professional clarinet, because that makes a big difference in sound, response, and tuning. Good luck.
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2007-10-02 00:18
You can't go wrong purchasing a clarinet from Sue Raycraft here on this board. I recently purchased one from her and it is a fantastic clarinet and a pleasant transaction. She offers a generous trial period.
Or, if you buy one that needs an overhaul, send it to David Spiegelthal, also from this board. He does nice work as well, and prefers older clarinets
I know there are others with great reputations, those are the two I have dealt with personally. Their contact information can be found by searching their names here on the board.
Good luck...
Michelle
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2007-10-02 13:05
I own several R13s from the late sixties, early seventies. All are terrific instruments. I'm sure there are more recent vintage Buffets that are also first rate and I have heard others talk of the sixties and seventies as the "golden years" but I'm not sure I can confirm that. My instruments have been played consistently for almost 40 years and are still going strong. They have, of course, been overhauled and repaired regularly but that's normal with all instruments, I would think.
I have a suggestion. If you are looking for a really terrific "new" instrument in the Buffet vein, consider Chadash. Guy Chadash in New York makes his own instruments and they are exceptional. They feel like R13s but with a better basic sound and focus, better intonation and smoother action. They are truly remarkable. You can obtain Mr. Chadash's contact information on his Web side (Google "Chadash" and you'll find it easily). Call or write to him. He's an easy person to talk to. He's also a first-class clarinetist. And few people know more about the clarinet than Guy Chadash.
Best of luck,
Paul Globus
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Author: jim S.
Date: 2007-10-02 15:45
Strange. Walter Grabner's site (see Ken Shaw's post above) advertises what appears from the picture and serial number to be a pre-R13 from 1950 or 1951 as an R13 from the 1960's.
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Author: Angela1
Date: 2007-10-02 17:05
Charles Fail (in the Marietta area) would be an excellent choice for someone to look over possible instruments. My understanding is that he does work for the ASO woodwind players, but he has always been really wonderful at dealing with me, a lowly student. He's cheap, fast, and honest about what he thinks. He does a lot of restoring of older instruments also, so this might be right up his alley. His website (mostly for selling restored instruments) is http://www.charlesfail.com/.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-10-02 21:14
Ken,
I'm not sure about Buffet's quality control as a function of the percentage of all the clarinets they manufacture, so this is anecdotal, but in the last six months, I've known of two fairly serious quality problems on really basic items:
- One of my students bought a new R13, and within a month of purchase the nickel plating started flaking off. The response of the Buffet rep. in the area was, in essence, "Too bad."
(Mark C. graciously offered to intercede with Buffet at C'fest, but by the time the kid's parents could get in contact, C'fest was over.)
- My instrument tech. had a brand new Tosca in his shop to have the middle joint tenon turned down because it was conical instead of cylindrical, and the joints were very nearly froze together.
For what it's worth.
B.
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