 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-09-24 13:28
It just occured to me while practicing the 1st piece. Because it's so soft, everything is quite sharp- and not consistantly as the notes near the mouthpiece change differently than the notes far from the mouthpiece.
Does anyone else see this as a problem? Should we try to play in tune with lots of covering of the lower holes? Should we play louder to bring the pitch down? Should we "lip it" with an in-tune but airy tone?
Thoughts...
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2007-09-24 15:04
RE: some answers to your questions -
"Does anyone else see this as a problem? Playing out of tune a problem?"
Yes.
"Should we try to play in tune with lots of covering of the lower holes?"
You should definitely try to play in tune; you can use fingerings or embouchure or air or combination of these to get it in tune.
Should we play louder to bring the pitch down?
Not necessarily needed.
Should we "lip it" with an in-tune but airy tone?
I don't think you should have to lip it up and have an airy tune.
Bottom line: You should be able to play it in tune with appropriate dynamics and still have a nice tone.
Tom Piercy
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Author: Iacuras
Date: 2007-09-24 15:06
Especially because the piece is so slow, there should be no problem using resonance fingerings to lower the pitch of the shorter tones. Experiment around to see if you can even out the pitch. You could also pull out a bit, and then push in before beginning the next movement.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
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Author: 2E
Date: 2007-09-25 07:25
Pitch on the A clarinet should generally require more air to keep the notes steady in pitch. Resonance fingerings can help with this although I wouldn't be worrying about pitch with the Stravinsky so much ... its unaccompanied! 2E
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-09-25 08:01
2E- even if it's solo it's still not in tune with the music that follows. If we think about the grand scheme of the piece, wouldn't it feel different if the harmonic ideas had some relevance?
Ps. I am posing this question only because I cannot recall ANY teacher I have played this for mention it. Nor have I ever seen anyone cover down to make things better in-tune.
Post Edited (2007-09-25 11:06)
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-09-25 17:22
I agree with Tom's post. Do use resonance fingerings and try to play in tune as much as possible. Strong focused airstream especially when playing soft can also help the pitch. Does the clarinet play in tune otherwise? Hopefully there is not something acoustically wrong with it. But if there is, a really good repair tech should be able to remedy it. You'd be surprised what they find, even if you thought everything was hunky-dory!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-09-25 17:35
Seems to me, it is a microcosm of the standard tuning problems we face everyday...........so, tune to the first line "E." As you hit the highest throat notes ("A" and "G#"), they will tend to play higher than that first line "E." In those cases, use of the muscles above the upper lip and perhaps some voicing changes will keep those pitches in line. Fortunately the low "E" and "F#" are soft and can be brought up easily with a little firming up of the overall embouchure.
Just keep the Korg on meter and have it off to the side looking at it every now and then.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2007-09-25 20:35
Sky, since you’re talking about covering the lower holes I recon your throat notes and the nearby notes are on the high side. Why not simply pull out the barrel slightly?
Alphie
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-09-25 20:59
Here's what Charles Neidich has said (from my posting on Clarinet Day at Mannes):
INTONATION AND VOLUME
The clarinet does *not* naturally play sharp at ppp and flat at fff. It seems to do so because players make an embouchure mistake, relaxing to get more volume and squeezing to get softer, and also by changing the oral cavity. This is difficult to describe in words, but was easy to hear when he demonstrated it.
An exercise to get out of this habit is to play G on top of the staff at mf and bend it down 1/4 step. Hold your embouchure and raise the pitch back up entirely by raising the back of your tongue into a "hee" vowel. (Actually, it's a combination of "hee" and "yeah!!")
When you can do this, then learn to drop your jaw as far as possible, holding the pitch up with the tongue/oral cavity position.
Then, start with your regular embouchure, drop your jaw a little (holding the pitch with the hee/yeah vowel) and then bring your jaw back up for "best tone."
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-09-26 02:32
Hey Ken,
But Ken, Charles isn't saying that the bottom end of the horn is not comparatively flat to the middle chalameau which is comparatively low to the upper chalameau. Is he?
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-09-26 03:43
Ken Shaw-
I have used that excercise as I have read it in the "Training book for Clarinet" that was published in Japan. How does that excercise translate to the change (or lack of change) in pitch in relation to dynamic change?
I'll try it when I get home and practice, but I don't recall reading that it had anything to do with pitch/dynamics, but just overall tone.
Alphie- I talking about the entire range of the chalameau in general at that dynamic (unless I am playing and have been instructed to play softer than is effective). At more normal dynamics, I have no problems with pitch.
I must state again here, I am a bit picky about pitch and maybe I am thinking about it more than I should be.
Post Edited (2007-09-26 03:44)
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Author: tdinap
Date: 2007-09-26 04:55
I see nothing wrong with being picky about pitch--in an unaccompanied piece I suppose it's less crucial to most audience members than it is in an ensemble setting, but you should certainly strive to be as in-tune as possible anyway.
I've always been taught that the "ideal" clarinetist (or any "ideal" musician for that matter) does not change pitch when moving between dynamic levels. Ideally, there should be enough support in even your most pianississimo playing to hold a constant pitch. To paraphrase Mr. Neidich, this problem is probably caused more by the musician than the instrument.
I place such emphasis on the word "ideal", however, because I'm not 100% sure that it's physically possible for anyone manage that absolutely perfectly. I know I am far from completely beating this problem, as I'm sure many people are. Perhaps some of the more experienced board members can shed some light on how much pitch/dynamic control is expected in the real world (probably a lot, based on the countless stories of perfectionist conductors out there).
As for different notes and ranges being out of tune with each other, I've been taught that a pitch-perfect, multi-register instrument is a physical impossibility. I'm sure the Hans Moennigs of the world have come extremely close to this ideal, but supposedly the laws of acoustics prevent such an instrument from existing. I'll have to look into this more, though--I'll be better informed after I finish my next physics course.
Tom
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