 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Robyn_765
Date: 2007-09-18 16:26
Hello all. I have just purchased my first Music Minus One book and CD - The Clarinetist Classic Pieces for Clarinet and Piano.
I am disappointed because the recording seems to play sharp - really sharp. When I tune, I am not in tune with the clarinet player (Anton Hollich) on the one CD or the accompaniment on the other CD. I can make myself play sharp, but it really sounds sharp to me and not pleasant!
Does this generally happen? Is this an isolated case? I was really excited about playing along, being a solo player - no ensemble or band to play with, but now I wonder if it's worth the money to get more???
Has anyone else had this experience?
-- Robyn
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-09-18 16:55
Hello,
I agree that MMO is terrible. I purchased the Brahms Quintet and the time and intonation of the quartet is horrendous. The only way to remedy this is to not buy any recordings from them, which is what I've sworn to do.
Smart Music provides the same function, although it is with midi sounds instead of real instruments. But, at least the recordings are perfectly in tune and rhythmically accurate.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-09-18 16:57
The only MMO books I own have the recordings of Harold Wright and Doriot Dwyer - and I own them solely for the recordings from these artists. Overall, I agree with David about the quality of MMO in general.
If you want to play along with an acompaniment, I've heard good things about SmartMusic. http://smartmusic.com/
An old clarinet teacher of mine owns the program and showed me a demo. If you have a good speaker system attached to your computer, you can have a good time with it. The accompaniment can even follow your playing - not the other way around like when you use a CD. Looking at the site, it seems smartmusic has upgraded since I last saw a demo of the program.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-09-18 17:42
I much prefer the Dowani TriTempi series.
One colleague of mine claims that the MMO series includes things played by groups using A =442
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-09-18 17:46
I got the standard MMO issues as LPs and adjusted the turntable speed to match my pitch. As I recall, the Brahms Quintet was recorded a half step high so you could play it on Bb clarinet. Fortunately, my turntable could go a half step down.
The quality was very variable. The Mozart Quintet is fine. The Brahms Trio has dish-washing noises and a baby crying in the background.
Of course you can't adjust the pitch on a CD, at least on most consumer players, but you can dub it into an Audacity file and adjust the pitch and speed independently.
Ken Shaw
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-09-18 17:53
Hello,
I didn't find the pitch to be consistently high, but rather all over the place. Terrible product, in my opinion.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Chalumeau Joe
Date: 2007-09-19 01:51
For "pitchy" problems with CDs (or perhaps me), I use a program called the "Amazing Slow Downer" (US $44.95, www.ronimusic.com)...pitch adjustment is quite easy-to-use.
Joe
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Author: allencole
Date: 2007-09-19 02:39
One thing that I found with the MMO kids stuff, was that the pianist was far too rubato for a situation with no eye contact--and not enough subdivision to reestablish tempo.
I do seem to recall liking the one with the Brahms sonatas.
But also remember that this stuff was recorded on photo & on cassette. Pitch problems are a given.
Dowani seems like a great resource, and MusikPartner from Peters Edition seems to be much better as well.
Allen Cole
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Author: Robyn_765
Date: 2007-09-19 13:35
I am so glad to learn it is not just me - thanks for all of your responses. I'm very glad I asked, as before I received this one, I was planning on buying more...Obviously not a good investment!
This Smartmusic.com looks really wonderful. I think I will try that for a month before singing up for the whole year to see if it suits me - it doesn't seem like you can hear a sample before joining...
Thanks again for the help!
-- Robyn
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Author: davyd
Date: 2007-09-19 17:47
I can't speak to MMO or the equivalent, never having used them.
But there are plenty of ensembles in the area around Herndon, VA; it shouldn't be difficult to find one to your liking.
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Author: Robyn_765
Date: 2007-09-20 00:01
Hi Davyd- I don't know why it shows up as Herndon VA - I actually live in NC. Honestly I don't think I'm up to par yet to join an ensemble....I stopped playing for several years and have only been playing again for about 8 months. I feel like I need to get a little back in the swing of things before I make people listen to me!
Out of curiosity, though - how would I go about finding one to join when the time comes?
-- Robyn
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-09-20 00:20
Hello,
If you'll send me an e-mail off-line, I'll mail you a "starter pack" for the Smart Music. It will include a cd to try it out first before you commit to purchase a subscription.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: davyd
Date: 2007-09-20 00:54
hello Robyn
For a list of community groups all over the place, dig this:
http://www.boerger.org/c-m/groups.shtml
Community groups vary greatly in terms of size and ambition (intended audience, difficulty of repertoire, etc.). When you feel ready, you might want to attend a concert by a prospective group, to get a sense of where they're at, before you look into joining it.
-- davyd
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-09-20 19:55
Robyn,
If you have a music notation program that can input midi files (Finale PrintMusic is an inexpensive one and there are probably some free ones out there), go to Oliver Seely's site:
http://www.csudh.edu/oliver/clarmusi/clarmusi.htm
and also check out some of the other music files here:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Music/index.html
You can load them into the software, adjust tempos to your liking and suppress the clarinet part. You can also extract clarinet parts from the score and print them out if you don't have the music. Both are great resources.
I have many of the MMO classical recordings. The problem I always had, at least with the orchestral ones, was having to crank up the volume on my stereo unnaturally high to hear the accompaniment (or wear headphones). It was also a nuisance to find specific bars of a work or repeat sections, for practice. CD probably helps with this but, in many cases, they have simply ported old recordings (Emil Kahn, who conducted many of the orchestral works was publishing books on conducting in the 60's and 70's) to CD. Most of these aren't that great and I find myself preferring midi versions. On the other hand, IMO, their recent release of Andre Hajdu's "Jewish Rhapsody" ("Truat Melekh") is pretty good.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Robyn_765
Date: 2007-09-21 12:10
I have signed up for a month of Smart music, so we'll see how that goes. I have only spent a few minutes working at it, but it appears it is exercises more than pieces, but as I said I haven't investigated enough to know for sure. Unfortunately, I signed up before seeing the posts here, so I think it's too late for the start up disk - they are sending me one of those in the mail, though along with an instrument mic.
As it turns out, there are not many groups near me on the list posted here. That is the bad thing about living in rural NC, I guess. I will definitely have to settle for playing alone for now. I am going to make a point to visit the only group I was able to find within an hour of me for their performance next month.
I do not have any music notation software, and I'm afraid I am way over my budget for music expenses this year, with just getting started again, so I'll have to wait on that. I have used 8notes.com off and on this year, which has free registration, but their selection is pretty limited. They use midi as well. I do have the same problem as JNK with hearing the accompaniment - but mine comes more from the screaming kids running through the room! Headphones work pretty well for that, but then I can't hear myself as well to judge tone, etc.
Oh well, I guess the ideal is to play with real people and to replace that with technology will cause one problem or another.....
-- Robyn
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2007-09-21 14:02
Robyn, I think you'll be very pleased with the SmartMusic program once you find out all it does! I've found it to be a tremendous help in learning music and getting accustomed to playing with the accompaniment before meeting with my live accompanist. Nothing, of course, beats a live person, but this is such a big help at any hour of the day or night. I still have to explore all the nooks and corners of all that the program can do, but so far it's been a great help to me and also in preparing my students for their exams!
And Jack, thanks for the references to other sites that can help to fill in the gaps of pieces that aren't yet on SmartMusic - I always prefer to have more than one choice.
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Author: TomD
Date: 2007-09-21 14:43
I just got the MMO Weber Concerto # 1 and I find it very difficult to stay in sync because of the amount of rubato. Without a conductor, it's near impossible to stay in sync, especially on the faster sections. The slow movement isn't too bad but even the section with the 16th note arpegios is tricky.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-09-22 13:59
I have been very disapointed with their stuff. Purchased four items, all poor quality.
richard smith
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2007-09-22 15:16
Many if not all music minus one CDs are remastered from older records.
Their main value is the players used: Wright, Drucker, etc. If you want to fully enjoy them you just about have to buy a Superscope PSD340 Portable Variable-Speed & Pitch CD Player/Recorder. Really pricey but worth it...at least to me.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: glin
Date: 2007-09-23 01:44
I have several. The one that I like is the Baermann collection performed by John Cippola. It's expensive, but relatively (the last couple of years) a recent product. The piano is a little bit tinny, and it sounds like an electrical piano as opposed to a real one.
Carl Fischer publishees some CD's with piano and clarinet scores. I forget what the label is, but it has music ranked in series (ie Beginner, Apprentice, Advanced). The Advanced (highest level) has some of the staples of the instrument: Mozart and Brahms. I looked at one today, and the piano sounds much better than the MMO. Also, there is a set rehearsal tempo track and a set perfomance tempo track. Helpful!
I wish I had the willpower to use SmartMusic. It's on my PC and to be honest, I'm too lazy to run up to the study and wait for it to load and run. It takes a little bit of time to load.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-09-23 03:49
John's recording was done with Midi for the Piano with him playing along with the midi for the examples. Was recorded in 1999 aprox.
Midi has come a long way since then.
I partnered with John to do custom tempo accomps of that MMO release back then when I was doing my Accompaniment service publicly.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2007-09-23 14:21
I think most of the posts above pertain to older recordings and classical music. I was shocked to see all the negative posts, because I have used the MMO traditional jazz books by Artist Tim Laughlin, and I have found them to be an invaluable tool. They might have been recorded a little softer than some others, but that isn't a big deal - that's why we have volume knobs. Besides - I can't believe the quality and calibre of the other folks I get to play along with...people like Laughlin, Connie Jones, Rick Trolsen, Lucien Barbarin, Tom McDermott, John Royen, John Eubanks, Frankie Lynne, Neil Unterseher, Matt Perrine, Hal Smith, and the great vocal additions by Neil Unterseher and Phillip Manuel (with Jason Marsalis, Vibraphone). This isn't midi - this is real playing with real players - I can't recommend these MMO highly enough.
Furthermore, MMO stated to me in a phone call that I could use these professional recordings for live gigs where I'd be making money! At least at the time, they were the only company who allowed such use! That's huge!!
I'm sorry to hear their classical products aren't too good - but please don't malign the entire product line by saying the "Music Minus One books" are poor quality - maybe the "Classical Music Minus One books", but not the whole gammut. Please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Afterall, some of the old Abersold jazz are flat embarrassing by today's standards - so I'm not sure it is fair to measure yesterday's products by today's standards. Too bad there isn't enough choice in the market to allow us all to choose from current up-to-date versions, but I'm guessing that no one has been able to figure out how to make such an endeavor profitable in today's hard-to-survive music industry. I respect all of these companies for trying to not only deliver our needs for "today" but also to be daring enough to put today's products there for us to use and critisize tomorrow.
Thank to Abersold, MMO, SmartMusic, and all the others trying to give us these experiences!!
Fuzzy
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-09-23 16:15
When I crank up the Mozart Concerto accompaniment (on LP) really loud, I can hear a very very faint ghost of the soloist. Why would the soloist be on the accompaniment track if the two were recorded at completely different times and places? Or, perhaps, the Mozart was an exception?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2007-09-23 16:29
If you're interested in playing chamber music, you might take a look at the
web site of Amateur Chamber Music Players (http://acmp.net/). They publish
a directory of similarly minded musicians - 50+ in North Carolina
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Author: ken
Date: 2007-09-25 02:13
I haven't purchased or heard the clarinet classical MMOs, but I own and have successfully used the Odrich, Laughlin, Young Jazz, and Linkin CDs for practice and one-man-show pay gigs. I found them overall, to be high quality and make excellent rhythmic and melodic support tools ... taking them for what they are, they make decent "extended click tracks". I'm sure all the claims in this thread are true and accurate, but in the same token; I wouldn't expect players at the professional or advanced levels who are posting here to realistically use the classical accompaniments as live or studio substitutes for musicians. v/r Ken
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-09-25 02:32
I have made accompaniments for players (big 5 members and not just Phila.) who have used them to practice for performances.
They wouldn't of course use that for studio work - nothing substitutes for a live pianist.
{{{Not looking for business as I only do it these days for close friends as I'm just too busy with other stuff.}}}
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2007-09-25 02:33)
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Author: Robyn_765
Date: 2007-09-25 12:58
Bennett - thanks so much for that link. I will definitely look into that!
I wanted to update and say that I was able to use Smart Music quite a bit over the weekend and am really impressed with it. I am a little disappointed that I can't print the method work out (I have a hard time reading it on screen with the little box they give you!) except to see my assessment, but overall, it seems to be a wonderful program. Thanks for the suggestion to try it....
-- Robyn
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2007-09-25 21:51
Smart Music really shines with its accompaniments for printed music. You've got to buy the method books, collections, individual works on paper, then Smart Music will play the piano along with you. The amount of music they provide 'on screen' is rather limited (except for the rhythm and scale studies).
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2007-09-26 00:57
I certainly agree that SM 10.x has more on-screen music than previous versions; kudos to Smart Music. But there do remain far more pieces for paper than on screen. Additionally, the accompaniments for paper seem to be on a real piano while the on-screen accompaniments seem synthesized.
No matter, SM is a great tool.
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Author: hpadi
Date: 2007-09-26 01:59
Hello Robyn 765, nice to meet you.
I read your posting and I am I did. I learned about the Smart-Music CD and reviewed their website. I like so much that I ended buying the subscription. Therefore, I am now waiting for the arrival of the CD. I will keep you posted on the up-coming experience.
Thanks again, Henry Padilla
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Author: BillT
Date: 2007-09-29 02:30
Nice useful info in this posting, I use a Clicker barrel to attempt to match intonation of recordings, which are frequently sharp it seems to me. I also own some of these play-along CD's but do not get much out of them so far.
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The Clarinet Pages
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