 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Josh
Date: 2002-03-11 20:02
My grandfather recently pasted away, and left me a Pruefer clarinet. I'm an instrument repair technician, but I repair brass and saxophones and don't have much knowledge about clarinets.
It is a wood Bb clarinet serial number A00613. There are no cracks in the instrument and it plays great.
Does anyone know when this clarinet was made, if it is reguarded as a very good professional instrument (or even if it is a professional clarinet), how much it might be worth, or any other information about it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Josh
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-11 20:14
I've had as many as four (now down to three) Pruefer clarinets in my possession, and the serial numbers of mine are either 4 or 5 digits, without any letter in front. So I can't help you with the date of yours --- perhaps if you gave us some photos or more details of the construction (e.g. wood, hard-rubber or plastic; Boehm or Albert, standard keywork or any extra keys and/or rings, etc.). Generally speaking, Pruefers were one of the two high-quality American clarinet makers, along with Penzel-Mueller. The only serial number list for Pruefer which I could find (which is also here on Sneezy) starts with s/n 6851, manufactured in 1934. I wouldn't expect it to be worth much on the open market, but if it plays well, it's certainly worth something to somebody!
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Author: Josh
Date: 2002-03-12 03:37
David,
It's a wooden clarinet. I honestly have no idea what Boehm or Albert means? I'll have to check into the keys tomorrow at work.
In my previous post I did forget to mention that it has "Super Artist Model" engraved on it underneath the Pruefer logo, anytime it's on the clarinet.
I can take some digital photos of it, but where should I post them for everyone to view?
Thanks,
Josh
P.S.- All of the serial number lists that I have found are just like you described, and don't list a letter before the number. If anyone else knows anything about this please let me know. Thanks!!!
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Author: Josh
Date: 2002-03-12 14:42
David,
All of the keys and rings look exactly like a Buffet Evette clarinet. It might be that Buffet manufactured this clarinet using the Pruefer name. I'm not sure, but this sounds possible just like Holton/Yamaha euphoniums and tubas, Jupiter/Yamaha Bari Saxophones, Conn and King (UMI) student line trumpets. There all pretty much the same horns, just like these clarinets.
Josh
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-03-12 16:14
Pruefer was an independent US maker of clarinets. They were not made by Buffet. Pruefer ceased making instruments in the 1970s I believe. At one time many of their instruments were distributed by the Carl Fischer company.
Pruefers were fine instruments. They were much better than those made by Conn.
Don't jump to conclusions based on similarities in keys.
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Author: Josh
Date: 2002-03-13 03:10
Dee,
I wasn't jumping to any conclusions. I was merely offering that as a possibility, since I cannot find the serial number A00613 anywhere when looking for the name Pruefer and since the keys on both clarinets are exactly the same. I know that G. Pruefer made really nice clarinets, and this one plays really well (my girlfriend plays clarinet and says that it plays great), but I just can't figure out this whole serial number thing. That's why it made me wonder if Buffet had anything to do with it. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Josh
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-04 17:52
Josh,
Did you ever find out anything more on your Pruefer Super Artist Model clarinet?
I too have the same clarinet. It was given to me by someone who bought it at an auction so I don't know much about it either.
My serial number starts with a letter J then these numbers 00311.
It looks like a really nice instrument.
LeePal
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Author: awm34
Date: 2007-09-05 02:32
I bought a Preufer A clarinet on the dreaded auction site a year or more ago. It's a decent instrument (serial no. 2495 on both upper and lower joints). The wider right-hand key spacing continues to torment me.
After 49 years away and 5 years back, my playing is still a work in progress -- weekly lessons notwithstanding.
Alan Messer
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-09-05 14:37
Hi LeePal - Since I have an old Pruefer [3/4 Full Boehm {my description}] with the 3 extra keys, single-bodied !!, I read everything re: Pr. Your finding an old thread of 2002 made me wonder if you searched our archives too specifically, as Pr Super Artist, whereby you may have missed many Pr discussions we have had. So, if you haven't already, I'd suggest Searching using Pr or Pr AND clarinet tor their retrieval. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-06 16:21
I read everything re: Pr. Your finding an old thread of 2002 made me wonder if you searched our archives too specifically, as Pr Super Artist, whereby you may have missed many Pr discussions we have had. So, if you haven't already, I'd suggest Searching using Pr or Pr AND clarinet tor their retrieval. Luck, Don
Thank you Don. I am new to this site and did do too specific of a search. Since then I've read many, many discussions about the Pruefer clarinets.
Here is my situation. My daughter is 15 and very much into musical instruments and wishes to continue with music after high school. She can pretty much play any instrument I put in her hands or will teach herself how to with in a few hours. Our goal is to give her a better (wooden) clarinet this year that will not break us financially. The one she is using is my 1970 resin Bundy with a B45 mouthpiece.
A friend gave us six used clarinets he bought from auctions and yard sales.
We want to pick at least one of the wooden clarinets and fix it up for my daughter. Two are Pruefers - a 1941 Professional Model, Carl Fisher Exclusive Distributor and the other is a Super Artist Model Serial #J00311. A third one is a 1898 Buffet Crampon, Evette but this one is missing the barrel and bell.
All three seem to be in good condition wood wise - no cracks or chips.
In your experience which of these three would you recommend to us to pick to work on for our daughter. My husband is planning on doing all the repadding and recorking. He has done this on both of our saxophones and her clarinet many times.
Thanks for opinion and anyone else who'd like to reply too.
LeePal
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-09-06 21:15
Hi again, LeePal, I'll try to give you some advice [somewhat opinionated, I'm sure]. As to choice to repair, I'd pick the one in the best condition and with the best-appearing wood, with the least to do to make it playable, hopefully the most recent cl. I recently bot an Evette ["Sponsored by Buffet-Crampon" in an oval] [ser. # 18340, 1960s I believe] which turned out to be a V G horn. If you used the B-C serial # list for Buffets, I rather doubt your Evette is an 1898, I believe Evettes began about 1930's. RE: barrel and bell, I'd look at all of those insts to see if the parts have been mixed. I've tried several differing barrels on mine, and as long as the bore [barrel bottom-upper joint top] diameters are quite close, [check with a little finger when assembled], it should work OK. Prob. for student band use, most any fitting bell should also be OK. As to mp, I've acquired a dislike for the B45, so look at the other mps for a smooth reed surface, and try it, some of the older mps were very good ! Either of the Pruefers might be good, would like to see them to satisfy my curiousity. Best wishes, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-06 23:40
Thanks again Don.
It looks like we'll work on the Pruefer Professional first then. That one seems to need the least amount of work and looks the best. However the barrel looks to not be wooden, but it has the Pruefer logo.
My buffet baffles me though. I know what you're saying about the Evette in the oval. Mine is not in the oval. My oval says
Buffett
Crampion & Cie
A Paris
Above the Buffet Oval is a "B" and underneath that is a huge "U" symbol
then it has the oval stuff
Then underneath the oval is what looks to be huge cursive "B" and under that is what looks like Brevette or Prevett and under that are some initals possibly GOVD O (not sure) and then under all that is an "H"
The serial number on the bottom section is 714L. All the serial number lists I've seen show that series as 1898.
I kind of assumed it was a Evette but after seeing picture of the other Evettes with it in the oval. I'm thinking mine is not an Evette.
It does have the register key that curves around to the top of the first piece. Which I've seen in pictures of older instruments.
I'll attach some pictures if you're interested in looking at them. I tried to send some pictures but it would not let me - oh well.
Thanks for your opinion.
LeePal
Post Edited (2007-09-06 23:54)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-09-07 14:21
Congrats, LeePal, it looks like you have a "golden oldie" BUFFET cl, vintage turn-of-century model, does it have a "doughnut key" [large pad with hole in it for a "fork Eb/Bb"] for 2nd finger left hand ?? There are a lot of Buffet owners who know much more than I about these oldies, hope they will respond, perhaps to your new thread ?. Restoring the better Pruefer seems wise to me, let us know how it works. FUN?, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-07 14:36
Yes it does have a doughnut key. btw, do you have any idea where to find a pad to replace that key pad?
Thanks for your input. The one Pruefer had a Pruefer mp so we're going to see how that one is for her. We're excited. She'd like to have one to use for District tryouts this winter. Hopefully we'll get it done by then. The buffet is a bit more work plus we want to find an older barrel and bell to match the two pieces we have - that might take some time.
Thanks,
LeePal
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-09-11 17:07
Reviving this older thread, to add some "on hand" and "on-line" research regarding what I have concluded are Pruefer 'stencil' brands sold in the U.S. during the 1940- 1970 period.
Specifically, these are "Sherwood" grenadilla and hard rubber clarinets sold by Montgomery Ward (the Sherwood/MW link comes up often in sax and guitar BB comments), "Silvertone" clarinets sold by Sears, and "Carl Fisher-Boston, Mass" hard rubber clarinets distributed by Carl Fisher Music.
My conclusions are based mostly on close examination of the keywork, of those I've collected, and those with good digital closeup images on E-bay (E-bay is actually a pretty good research resource). All that I have examined have identical keywork, with a few exceptions: (a)those produced before aprox. 1950 (aprox. ser.# 25,000)have the 3-post A/F# key layout, those after having the 4-post layout, (b) Those with later (1970?) serial #s like 57,000 have thin nickel plating, lift-and-drop left pinky linkage,and a surface mounted cheaper looking thumbrest. These later horns look very student-level, made to play well, but to a low price. My later Carl Fisher also has the silver lined upper joint "Silver Throat" feature common to many Pruefers.
The earlier clarinets, in both wood and hard rubber (my four are in the 20,000 to 30,000 serial # range) are very nice clarinets; with high quality unplated german silver keywork that tarnishes very little, good ergonomics as far as ring height/fit, key feel, and spring tensions. The left pinky linkage is of the pinned type (pin in hole)common to high level clarinets. Intonation is good (to my non-maistro ear), and with a good mouthpiece, they play very well, I'd say on par with Noblets, Evette & Schaefer, Malernes, etc. Maybe not quite as sweet as my Leblanc pro horns, but very close. Overall, I'd rate these clarinets low-intermediate, the only thing keeping them from being high-intermediate being the lack of high level sanding and polishing of the otherwise nice looking and feeling keywork.
I've tried to find a couple distinct features of these horns that might help others to identify other possible Pruefer 'stencils' , but its tough. The cup design is fairly distinct: 'dome-shaped' top like a Bundy, and the 'pointy' attachment arm extends 80% across the 'dome', again like a Bundy, but with a sharp 'shoulder' to the cup, unlike Bundy. The register key is the low-profile type, with the little hump over the cup, looks just like Leblanc pro or Kohlert-Graslitz key. The vent is also slightly raised and rounded, only slightly larger than the Leblanc type. The middle tenon ring especially, is wider than most, at .350"
Go forth and Collect!
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-09-08 02:48
>Specifically, these are "Sherwood" grenadilla and hard rubber clarinets sold by Montgomery Ward (the Sherwood/MW link comes up often in sax and guitar BB comments), "Silvertone" clarinets sold by Sears, and "Carl Fisher-Boston, Mass" hard rubber clarinets distributed by Carl Fisher Music.
Clark,
if there is any statue of limitation on old threads, then I am guilty; but since this thread had been revived every 3 years or so, let me do it again!
here is what we dug up.
Pruefer model line up (this is from mid-50s ads):
Silver Throat - full ebonite
Professional - entry level wood with ebonite barrel and bell
Artist - full wood
Super Artist - top professional model
Silver throat had metal insert in top joint, and it has been the most stenciled clarinet. I have a Sherwood "silver throat deluxe", also Cleveland stencil with barely readable # on one of the joints. Both judging by serial # are made ~63-65. Also owner of the Professional from the same period.
They sound nice but they have serious issue with a few tones below and just above joint, that is with B45 and to lesser with OEM MPC. Better with larger volume MPC but still sharp. Funny that when I mapped them they were all sharp in identical way, which leads me to believe that they were designed for different type of MPC and it is good idea to use barrel rings when tuning.
The SilverThroat LH joint is 14.8mm and Professional is 15.2. Keys are interchangeable. 4-post throat A/G#, no shared post for top joint right hand keys. Barrels are 15.0 on ST and don't have one for Prof, but it needs at more then 67 to be in tune.
The Artist and Super Artist supposedly are from different DNA they are either related to Moennig bros which Pruefer had relationship to, or perhaps to Pezel-Mueller Artist(?) BTW Pruefer was part of Penzel-Mueller-Proefer from 1911 to 1920, until Penzel died and Mueller took over. Moennig is more likely since Pruefer Artists were narrow bore, and PMs were not.
Later ads from 1967-1974 period mention:
"Silver Throat"
The "Classic" — one piece ebonite clarinet,
Exclusive crack-proof Acoustonite plastic clarinet.
Festival Series - one piece ebonite stenciled for many (look for Phil's review at clarinetpages)
Ultima Series clarinets
Pruefer Artists were sold through Carl Fisher, and Pruefer's son (or nephew?) William was married to Carl's daughter.
Company supposedly burned down in 1976 to never reopen clarinet business again
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