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 Did my first repad
Author: perryg114 
Date:   2007-09-04 12:11

Well I did my first repad on the $10 Robert Thibaud that I picked up off Ebay. I got the pads put on and they don't leak according to the suction test and it plays pretty well. I had to replace a broken needle spring on one of the large keys on the lower section. It took me a while to figure out how to replace the spring. I ordered a piano wire assortment from mcmaster.com and found the right size wire. I have not replaced the cork pads under the keys yet since I did not have any contact cement. I expect this will take longer than the repad. I also need to do the tenons with new cork. So far I am pleased with the results. I think it sounds better than the Signet 100 I have and not quite as good as the Noblet 40 I bought for my wife.

Perry

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Lelia Loban 2017
Date:   2007-09-04 14:05

Congratulations, and welcome to the addiction! Good idea to start with a clarinet cheaply obtained. I did (and re-did...) my first repad on a clarinet from a yard sale, and worked on a couple of other expendable instruments before gulping hard and working on something I really wanted to be able to play.

Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Cindyr 
Date:   2007-09-05 19:17

Did you use a burner in order to heat the keys? I've done corking, and am thinking about doing the pads, but it looks to me like the investment needs to be made to get the proper repair kit. The kit costs just about as much as a repad, so it's only cost effective if used on more than one clarinet.

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2007-09-05 19:52

I use an ordinary bic lighter and special hot-melt glue. Never had any problems with that combo. (just make sure the flame doesn't touch the key, ie hold it an inch below the key)
I contemplated buying an alcohol lamp, but for some reason they cost an arm and a leg here (compared to what eg musicmedic charges)

--
Ben

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: perryg114 
Date:   2007-09-05 21:47

I used a Barbecue butane lighter one of the long ones. It worked pretty well accept it would soot the outside of the cups. I used stick glue that I chopped up and put the pieces in the cup and heated it from underneath. In hind sight, the glue pellets that music medic sells would be easier to deal with if you don't have a glue gun. The butane torch may make things easier but it is not necessary. Really all you need is glue and pads to start and jewlers screw drivers to remove the keys. Leveling can be done after the key is installed by reheating the pad cup. The leveling takes practice. You can check for leaks by closing all the keys and plugging the end and sucking on the section you are working on. Your first few jobs won't be perfect. I need to work on shimming the keys with cork to get the right amount of opening next.

Perry

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2007-09-06 05:35

Ben did look for an alcohol lamp in stores of labratory supplies for schools? That's where I found mine for $2 (but not in the same country!).

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2007-09-06 05:58

Yeah, the lab supplies stores sell them for like 30..60$ here. :(

--
Ben

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: perryg114 
Date:   2007-09-06 12:02

I would think you would want something you can direct the flame better than a stationary torch. One of these butane mini torches should work well.

Perry

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Cindyr 
Date:   2007-09-06 12:55

A lot of good information, thanks. Sounds like the most difficult part is to level the pad cups, which takes practice. I'm not sure where to find a "school supply store." If the keys do get black on them, will that just wipe off? Also, I've read that there is a specific order in which to remove the keys. Is there a recommended sequence that anyone has used that would be helpful?

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: perryg114 
Date:   2007-09-06 13:35

Yes the black will rub off but sometimes is a little stubborn. A Dremel tool with a cotton buff wheel and jewelers rouge does wonders for the keys. Best to buff them with them off the instrument before you glue the pads on. Also the flame can cook the pads if you are not careful. You need to puncture the pads before heating them so they won't swell. The lighter is hard because it is hard to control where the heat goes. The torches are more focused so you know where the heat is going and also you will get less soot.

Yes there is a specific order to removing the keys. Trial and error and eventually you will learn the sequence. Practice taking them off and putting them back on again. Once you get a little practice it only takes a few minutes to take one apart and put it back together. Those needle springs will get ya even if you are careful. It is best to have your tetanus shots up to date. The top section is the easiest to start with.

Here are some good articles.

http://www.musicmedic.com/info/articles.html

http://reviews.ebay.com/How-To-Repad-A-Clarinet_W0QQugidZ10000000000748423

http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/Care/PadReplacement.html
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/Care/TenonCork.html

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/LeakyPads.htm

Good Luck

Perry

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-06 14:31

I use a bunsen burner and bottled gas (Calor) which does the trick - it's a large flame, but with careful handling it can do the most delicate work, and I've never scorched a pad or the body with it.

Butane 'creme brulee' torches are also good - have a look around a kitchenware department or specialist for these. And you can also caramelise your creme brulee after floating your pads in.

Chris.

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Ski 
Date:   2007-09-06 17:08

==Butane 'creme brulee' torches are also good - have a look around a kitchenware department or specialist for these. And you can also caramelise your creme brulee after floating your pads in.==

Now you're speaking my language! [grin]

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: b.roke 
Date:   2007-09-07 00:16

i use Musicmedic's alcohol lamp and it was cheap and works really well. i put stuff intended for lamps and camping stoves in it and the black just wipes off.

it's very adjustable, but has burst into flame around the metal bits when i have the flame too high for too long.

.

steadfastness stands higher than any success

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2007-09-07 05:26

> I would think you would want something you can
> direct the flame better than a stationary torch.
> One of these butane mini torches should work well.

Maybe. I have a small torch that can stand (with flame from below or from the side) and I can hold it easily to direct the flame like you said. For changing pads I still use an alcohol lamp that I don't hold, because to me it is more comfortable. The only times I might use the torch for pads is when I need a very small flame (for example sax key with a pearl on it) or to heat glue in the pad cup faster from above (flame directly on the glue).

By the way Perry, I still remember my first repad. It was a plastic Eb clarinet and I used my home stove as flame!

Ben, if those are the prices and schools can afford it then I guess it is good in a way that is very important :)

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Gordon (NZ) 
Date:   2007-09-07 06:33

You don't need a directed flame.

Chris wrote "I use a Bunsen burner and bottled gas (Calor) which does the trick - it's a large flame, but with careful handling it can do the most delicate work, and I've never scorched a pad or the body with it."

Likewise. I totally agree. It is how you use it that matters. For delicate heating, hold the back of the cup to the SIDE of the flame, so that the flame barely touches the key. a sort of glancing blow.

My Bunsen burner has quite a wide top, so I have put a metal cap on it, with a hole through it, to reduce the diameter of the flame.

If you are getting soot on the key, from using a yellow flame, it is because you are holding the flame too close. The yellow part of the flame contains unburnt carbon, and just beyond the yellow is actually hotter.

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-07 15:00

I've never had any soot trouble from a gas flame, and a blue flame (with more air) is far better than a yellow flame.

You should never use a flame directly on a key cup as the heat will scorch the body. Even with the large flame from my bunsen I can install or adjust small cork pads (5mm-8mm) with the keys in place on the body without scorching the pads or the joint. You just get used to the equipment you're using. Some people like a tiny gas flame, but small flames have their limitations. With this large flame I can silver solder key parts in it, harden and temper steel tools, blue steel screws in it as well as doing delicate work - so it's a case of knowing how to use it depending on the circumstances.

Some spirit lamps make the silver plate go funny (especially when using methylated spirits), and the staining is hard to remove even with a silver cloth.

Chris.

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: shmuelyosef 
Date:   2007-09-09 02:07

Some oils that are made for spirit lamps have a meaningful sulfur content and the burning sulfur products form a very tenacious tarnish on the silver plate. Alcohol should not be this way, particularly if you burn the stuff made for thinning shellac.

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: perryg114 
Date:   2007-09-09 02:24

Yes oil lamps would be bad. Alcohol is good. Seems like you could make an alcohol lamp with a bottle and a some wick. I am not sure this would be that much better than a lighter though.

Perry

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Gordon (NZ) 
Date:   2007-09-09 08:03

Chris, are you saying you use your Bunsen burner for say silver soldering (i.e. red hot) clarinet keys, or parts of sax keys?

I use mine for silver-soldering 0.2 mm thick sterling silver bands for clarinet tenon caps, but I don't think it would supply enough heat for a clarinet key. If so, it would be very slow. For that I use a 'squirty' type of flame that forces faster combustion, hence more heat.

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-09 10:35

I can silver solder clarinet keys with it and use it to silver solder fairly thick (3mm) key pieces using G6 solder. I've got a hand held butane torch which has a large flame which also makes light work of key making.

But both these can be used for delicate heating applications too, such as fitting guide pillars under long keys on oboe/cor joints - heating them up so the guide can me moved to line up with the key barrel and heating 8ve inserts while in the body to seal them with wax.

Chris.

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 Re: Did my first repad
Author: pewd 
Date:   2007-09-09 14:27

>Seems like you could make an alcohol lamp with a bottle and a some wick

I made mine out of an empty jelly jar.
Drill a hole in the top and thread in a small metal tube - the type they sell in hardware stores to make lamps out of. It a small (1") threaded brass tube used to run wire inside of, up to a lamp socket. About $1 at a hardware store. I sealed it with a plumbers gasket. Run some cotton inside for a wick. I use Ethyl alcohol (denatured) for fuel. The trick is to get the wick size right so you don't create a roman candle when you light it.

A good book which includes a better description (and pictures) than the above is:
'Instrument Repair for the Music Teacher', by Burton Stanley, Alfred Publishing. It should be available on amazon.com

The book has good descriptions and lots of pictures on the process of repading, changing corks, springs, etc.

Dallas, Texas

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