 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: perryg114
Date: 2007-08-11 20:55
Attachment: Signet Crack.jpg (284k)
Attached is a photo of a spot on a Signet 100 that I bought off Ebay. It looks almost new other than this funny spot where it looks like something was touched up or a dent or crack fixed. I would be surprised if it is a crack considering the lack of use this horn appears to have had. Would the factory do something like this to fix a defect in the wood on these entry level horns?
Perry
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-08-11 22:09
that looks like a pinned crack repair.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2007-08-11 22:09)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-08-11 22:19
To me that looks like a filled defect in the timber - could be a worm hole caused by some pretty hardy beetle larvae or similar, but it has been filled and shouldn't cause any trouble.
An R13 Prestige I just worked on has a filled worm hole on the lower joint just above the thumbrest, and my Series 9 Bb also has a filled worm hole on the lower joint as does my Prestige bass. It's not uncommon to find defects in timber on any instrument of any quality - though it's best to put a tonehole or pillar hole through any imperfection rather than having it on the underside or anywhere else that's visible.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: perryg114
Date: 2007-08-11 22:32
I was wondering how it would effect resale value and I believe in being honest so I was wondering how to present it. So it could be something that came from the factory?
I was planning on repadding it and playing it for a while and try to get back into playing. I played in middle school for a couple years and nothing since. My wife plays or use to before we got married. She was pretty good, so she says, so I am bought her a used Noblet 40 and am having it repadded for her birthday to replace her bug eaten Bundy.
Thanks for all the good input.
Perry
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-08-11 23:44
It looks like it was filled at the factory as it has the scratched finish they use to make the wood look more wood-like! The area around it looks fairly flat as well so it has been filled and finished properly, but filler (most likely superglue and wood dust) will be shiny in comparison to the surrounding wood. Though if they used a highly polished finish it wouldn't show up half as much, but only if the person polishing up the joints doesn't melt the filler by buffing it too hard.
It won't affect the resale value as it's nothing serious and nothing that will cause any concern, just one of those things that manufacturers do. If it was more serious, the joint would have been scrapped. I don't think you should make an issue of it when it comes to selling, though if the buyer does ask about it you should just tell them it was already like that when you bought it, and has been like that as supplied from the factory. If it was a crack there's be a shiny line of filler in between the filled holes as well.
I wonder what the grenadilla attacking beetle larvae are called, and what they look like. I do know that woodworm won't touch grenadilla as their mandibles aren't strong enough (though they go through maple like there's no tomorrow!). How do you keep woodworm away from your clarinet? Keep a viola (or bassoon) nearby!
L. Omar Henderson - have you any knowledge of these beetle larvae?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-08-12 01:54
Sorry - an entomologist I am not but I do not think that I want to meet up with a gang of them in a dark alley !
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-08-12 05:41
i see 2 oval shapes, plus that blob in the middle, e.g., 3 discolored spots.
the ovals seem to define a line at an angle to the length of the instument.
thats how many pinned cracks appear.
can your dentist xray it for you? that would tell for sure.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-08-12 06:56
Are there actually 3 spots? The large irregular one and the low oval one are too close to be opposite ends of a pin, and too close to be two separate pins.
And I cannot see how a filled pin hole would finish up the odd shape of the large one.
The grain seems to be uninterupted as it enters these areas.
So I think it is where drops of acetone were split on the clarinet, messing up the black goo on the surface.
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-08-12 06:57
Quote:
thats how many pinned cracks appear.
I agree that it does look like a pin repair job, but wouldn't filling in any sort of hole in the wood look similar? Also, if they were pins, it appears from the placement of the dots that the crack would have been running against the grain - In my experience, cracks usually have run with the grain, or can turn slightly diagnal running towards a post. I've never seen a crack run against the grain before...but I suppose anything is possible. I'm sure the techs on the board have seen a few crazy cracks.
This looks like the bottom side on the middle of the lower joint -- also an unusual place to develop a crack - yes?
Are these the only spots - those viewable in the attached picture?
If you do take X-rays, I can't wait to see the pic!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-08-12 11:11
Considering the location of these patches, it would have made sense to put the Ab/Eb tonehole through one (the irregular one) and the other would be hidden by the RH F#/C and E/B keys if they set the joint out with this in mind.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-08-12 12:41
1. It is rare for the lower half of a clarinet to split, and I can see no reason why a split would choose this location for stress relief when there are plenty 'stress raisers' in the form of tone holes and posts nearby to encourage a split to occur elsewhere.
2. Why on earth would THREE patches, in THESE locations be used for a crack? A three-ended pinnning wire???!
3. In timber with this much visible grain, if you don't see evidence of the crack itself, then I think the chances of this being a crack are nill.
4. If they were fillings put in blemishes (or pin holes), then I don't think it would be possible to so perfectly continue the detail of the grain into and across the patches.
Therefore, b y elimination, I stick to my suggestion, that it is solvent damage.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-08-12 12:55
It doesn't looks like a pin because the location and the shape of the marks are not like with a pin. I doe't think it is a feeler for a hole because it would be smoother. I'm guessing someone accidenly spilled something on the clarinet that left this mark. Did you try to wash it off?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-08-12 13:55
These certainly don't appear to me to be places where pins were filled. They could be some extraneous material that got embedded in the tree itself.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-08-12 14:34
Whatever this is (and I'm going with my instincts that it's filled defects in the timber), provided it hasn't intruded into the bore it won't cause any problems or affect playability - if it was a problem then it wouldn't have made it this far.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-08-12 21:51
I'm with Gordon in that it is unlikely that anyone would take the time to perfectly match the wood grain on a repair, knowing that the repair was going to end up shinier. Looks like some kind of solvent or glue was spilled on it .
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-08-12 22:03
The grain isn't matched, it's disguised with scratches. Yamaha and Buffet do the same thing to their wooden clarinets and it's a pain when there is filling work to be done as the repaired area has to be scratched to match - it's easier getting a highly polished finish than a dull one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-08-13 13:28
Perhaps you're right, Chris.
On enlarging, they could well be scratches superimposed on both the timber and filling material.
Also, the filling material, especially on the irregular area, has little spots on it, characteristic of tiny air bubbles that can come from mixing epoxy.
But still I don't think it is a location for pins.
Therefore I could plug for filled blemishes in the timber.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-08-13 14:32
It's the edge around the irregular patch and the flecks in it that lead me to believe it's filler.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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