 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-08-09 08:20
Hi guys, the subject pretty much says it all. I have an Italian background and can easy roll my "r's" as they say... but once the mouthpiece is in my mouth I can't do it. All that seems to happen is I squeek. I try and do it but the tongue just doesn't want to move. I'm playing Francaix's Theme and Variations and need to be able to do it, and Slap tongue (which I can't do either) :(
Can anyone offer advice?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-08-09 09:17
Try to roll R and move your tongue as back as you can in the mouth. You should feel your tongue moving back and forth on the top of your mouth. At some point when it is back you can't roll R anymore. You need to roll as back in your mouth as you can so there is room for the mouthpiece. Maybe first try by also putting less mouthpiece in your mouth too. Even put just a bit of the mouthpiece in, then rool R and then while you are rolling put the mouthpiece in. With a little practice I managed to do it, although it is not great yet. With more practice I bet it is possible to make it much better (but I stopped trying to improve it because I rarely want to flutter tongue anyway).
Maybe other people have different way, but that's what I found starting from the same place as you, easily rolling R but at first can't flutter tongue at all.
Post Edited (2007-08-09 09:22)
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2007-08-09 10:59
As an amateur band musician I've only ever seen two pieces where I had to flutter tongue... both by Leonard Bernstein.
One of those was back in my high school bass clarinet days. I don't recall having a lot of trouble learning to do it. But, echoing clarnibass, I did find I had to take only a very small bite on the mouthpiece. It was one (dotted half, I think) note of flutter surrounded by other notes so I had to pull the mouthpiece out quickly for that one note and shove it back in quickly for the next.
The other is one we're doing now in our band, and I'm playing soprano clarinet; it doesn't require as much adjustment on the bite, but there's some.
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Author: 2E
Date: 2007-08-09 12:37
Hey Nick mate, (I didnt know you were Italian ha)
Flutter tonguing is something that will come with a bit of experimentation with embouchure/tongue positioning. As was mentioned above, you do need to roll your R's back in your mouth whilst air is still moving forward to make the reed vibrate. Practise softly in the lower register at first, flutter tonguing notes in the clarion register around F#/G is genuinely difficult as your throat/mouth positioning will automatically adjust with the changing pitches. Once you can flutter tongue one note, play up your chromatic scale and see how hard it becomes. Highest I think I can get comfortably is around a Bb, I hope the Francaix isnt too high up there. As for slap tonguing talk to Brian (who I hear has mastered it on bass) or some of the con jazz saxophonists.
If nothing works, flutter tonguing can also be imitated by growling in the back of your throat.
2E
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Author: kev182
Date: 2007-08-09 12:53
the most crucial aspect of flutter tongueing is air speed. You need have the right amount of speed and air to cause your tongue to flutter and still have left over air to produce a sound. If you tongue is too high, it will stop your air completely. just keep on trying ;0
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-08-09 12:54
Thanks for that everyone. It's mostly stuff I've heard before but don't get anywhere with it. I'll keep at it. 2E - since you seem to know me, who might you be?
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2007-08-09 15:13
Regarding Kevin's post I would offer that air speed is important especially outside your mouth. Practice flutter without the mouthpiece. Hold your hand about 4-6 inches from your mouth. As you flutter focus on projecting lots of air onto the palm of your hand. Try it with the clarinet. If you only get squeaks then perhaps you are drawing the bottom lip away from the reed......ie not enough lip pressure on the reed. Good luck.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2007-08-11 11:09
I had my first success with flutter tonguing today. First I tried doing it with the mouthpiece in my mouth but with no reed on..it was easy. Then I tried playing in the low register with the reed on and would flutter in the back of my mouth and then slowly add the mouthpiece in and it would would (sometimes) for a few seconds then it would stop. There is a lot of air escaping my mouth when it happens because I have to loosen my embouchure a lot for it to work. Anyway I'm hoping it will get better in time but at least it's a break through.
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Author: EBC
Date: 2012-12-30 01:16
I realize this is an old thread, but I'm also learning the Francaix Tema con variazioni, and am having difficulty with both the flutter tonguing and the slap tonguing required for the final variation. The frustrating thing is that I played the Berg Vier Stuecke four years ago and I could flutter tongue easily then!
Any advice on either or both of these techniques would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2013-01-04 13:48
My frustration: I have a middle school student who can do it perfectly. He's trying to teach ME how to do it!
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-01-04 19:01
Dear Nick,
I cheat. I somehow make a gargling sound at the back of my palate-I'm not quite sure what exactly it is that's gargling; the larynx? -some fatty tissue at the back of the palate? At any rate, it works, as I have been complimented on my flutter-tonguing on the rare occasions that I have had to do it. It's the end that counts, not the means.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: EBC
Date: 2013-01-06 18:56
To add to my previous message, I CAN now fluttertongue. The method I used was:
1. Flutter with open mouth, practicing moving the flutter closer to and further from the tip of the tongue.
2. Flutter making fake clarinet embouchure.
3. Flutter with mouthpiece only, playing double-lip and single-lip.
4. Flutter double-lip.
5. Flutter single-lip.
Wash, rinse and repeat.
Eric
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