 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-08-06 13:48
Over the past 6 months a few of my better students asked me if I thought that Vandoren reeds were running slightly harder than in the past. I didn't have an answer and just thought it might be that the students were just deficient in their practice time, so their reeds were giving them trouble.
Now, without provocation, some of my pro colleagues have also recently asked me the same question - as they have found it necessary to drop down 1/2 strength to achieve the same "feel" they had before.
One now wonders - are these opinions all a coincidence or has the grading of Vandoren reeds slightly changed, perhaps to (just a hunch) disguise some recent poor batches of cane? ...GBK
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-08-06 14:48
'Getting harder' or 'Getting harder to find a good one'? THAT is the question.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-08-06 15:27
I never play on reeds seasoned less than 40 years. I'll let you know in 2047.
![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
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Author: William
Date: 2007-08-06 15:45
A good VD has always been hard to find. However, with the last few boxes of Trad 3.5s, I have noticed a trend toward more resistance which I had thought was "just me" and my usual lack of summertime practice. I've been able to cope with this "new" inconsistancy via liberal use of my RW and reed knife, but I must agree, it does seem to be getting more difficult to pull that elusive "good" reed right out of the box.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-08-06 15:59
It must be somewhat of a nightmare to aim to make consistent reeds with the changing weather patterns and environment. I would think that Vandoren is not aiming to dupe the clarinet public, but to do their best with what they have.
Think of the way wines have vintages. Nobody expects that each year of Pinot Noir or Merlot or whatever is to be identical in all characteristics. But that is what we all expect from reeds, which is also an organic product.
I do also find that aging my reeds for a period (although I can't quite wait 40 years!) seems to help playability and consistency.
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2007-08-06 16:18
My theory is that it could link to the trend in global warming. The ocean is warming up and has been evaporating at a fast rate, therefore there's been more humidity than ever. And if this is true:
"Since your normal reeds will most likely play 1/2 to 1 full strength harder in high humidity, drop down at least 1/2 strength." From GBK's "Reeds, Humidity, and You" thread.
Then it could be just our environment...Of course I'm not an expert on this, but it's just a theory.
Post Edited (2007-08-06 16:19)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-08-06 16:30
> My theory is that it could link to the trend in global warming.
You may have a point there.
I noticed that I need half a notch stronger a reed when in the mountains than at home, for the same level of comfiness. I think it has to do with the atmospheric pressure, so maybe the pressure is increasing on the lowland people.
This would not be a greenhouse but a pressure cooker phenomenon then, which sounds magnitudes more uncomfortable.
--
Ben
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Author: voggorb
Date: 2007-08-06 18:31
Mine are definitely harder than they were 1 year ago. I have opened 4 new boxes of my usual V12 3.5, and ALL of them are harder than I prefer, so now I have bought a pack of 3's, and they work much better.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-08-06 18:48
That's my opinion also. I have dropped from 3.5 to 3.0 in the last year or so. Vandoren rue 56. I first thought it was me, but this bulletin is convincing.
richard smith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-08-06 19:14
I'm finding the 56 Rue Lepic 3.5s to be very much on the soft side, BUT the 3.5+ are too hard - there's no happy medium. So I run a 3.5+ over with my sanding plate.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2007-08-06 19:23
Shhhhhhhhhh. it's a secret, but........
The subject will be fully reviewed in MICHAEL MOORE's next documentary,
"Arundo? Donax!"
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: Aequore
Date: 2007-08-06 21:45
I agree,
The VD reeds I have purchased recently are now harder than before. I guess we will all have to expand or air capacity in our lungs???
I have to admit I have been giving thought of changing brands. Which is kind of a hard choice to make since VD has been the Brand of reed to buy all these years. I have seen these Australian reeds which are said to be very good and aged to perfection...
Pb
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-08-06 21:53
I don't understand what all the fuss is about. If a 4 for example is your choice and now it is too hard, why not use a 3 1/2?
I switched to 3 1/2's a while back and am still getting great results with Vandorens. I love Vandorens and after trying every reed on the market, I can't imagine playing anything else.
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2007-08-06 23:31
my experiences are the same as others on the thread. and im using reeds aged for about ten years. so its probably not VD as making their reeds different today. in that case i woundn't have experienced it!!!
has to be something with the global climate, since i live in sweden and (i guess) most of you in america!!
one year = 1/2 softer reed than usual.... in 10 years the heel of the reed will be as thin as the tip is now..... scarying.... perhaps we have to do something about this soon. why not a "reed-demonstration" outside the whitehouse!!?? :P
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Author: marzi
Date: 2007-08-07 01:12
haven't noticed any change, still using VD 3's for the most part...have purchased 3 boxes in the past 6 months, maybe i get old stock?
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2007-08-07 01:29
I have found that the last few boxes of strength 5 V12s have been harder, just a little bit, just the way i like them. The newest batch i got had the recycled plastic holder, which is slightly more translucent, and has a rounded top.
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Author: Clariphant in Bb
Date: 2007-08-07 01:59
Not entirely related, but...
I've noticed that GC Evolution (3s) are very consistent within each box, but the strength varies quite a bit from one box to the next (but all new stock). Perhaps manufacturers' strength-testing devices are not all calibrated in exactly the same way, or maybe they get worn out and are replaced with slightly different ones...
I don't use Vandorens enough to notice this kind of change, but I did buy a box once (3s), and they were all VERY hard. I then looked at the reeds, and they were 5s (mispackaged).
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2007-08-07 02:06
GBK, you are pulling our legs aren't you? You are using your position of influence, as co-moderator of this board and an experienced professional player, to see how many other players can be "suggested" to. This is a psychological experiment, yes?
As for me, I continue to find the same thing with Vandorens -- blue box, V-12, and 56, that I always have: some play harder, some softer, and some just right.
Steve Epstein
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-08-07 02:28
Just purchased a box of 4 Blue Box as an emergency backup as I was awaiting the arrival of Gonzales Reeds on mail order. So far, the reeds meet my expectations of how a Vandoren 4 Blue Box should feel. I did purchase them from a local Sam Ash, so they could be old stock.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-08-07 02:38
Steve Epstein wrote:
> GBK, you are pulling our legs aren't you? You are using your
> position of influence, as co-moderator of this board and an
> experienced professional player, to see how many other
> players can be "suggested" to. This is a psychological
> experiment, yes?
If only I was so clever. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
I would have usually dismissed my student's telling me about their Vandoren impressions, but when a few pros I play with said the same exact thing (unsolicited) it got me wondering if there really WAS a difference...GBK
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-08-07 02:48
Could the reeds be a little harder because of the flow packaging the got going on? But I did go down half a size to a 3.5 earlier this year because they were getting harder, or at least i felt like it.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-08-07 05:37
several of my better students have been complaining about reeds a bit lately.
so ... maybe.
we have had unusual weather this spring and summer (rain! yea, finally), so its hard to tell if something has changed. maybe its just the unusual higher humidity locally.
i'm down to my last 2-3 boxes of the old purple box vandorens, so haven't noticed anything in my playing. wish i could find another supply of purple box #5's - say 25, 30 years old, i'm almost out :(
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2007-08-07 05:37)
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Author: patricodell
Date: 2007-08-07 05:58
Not sure they are harder. They are currently more playable ... at least the new RUE 56 in the individually sealed packs. There is a definite difference between the old RUE 56 and the new 56. Vandoren says the the cut is the same, I don't know, I think it is the crop of cane. Next year they may suck again. Gonzalez used to be pretty good ... probably 75% good reeds. Then about 2 years ago something changed and you were lucky to find a few good reeds in a box. I will probably pickup 20 or 30 boxes of the new RUE 56.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-08-07 06:19
though it might not seem a serious issue, it puts the consistency of vandoren's strength claims in question. if the reed isn't claimed to be a certain strength, the inconsistency could cost the sales of vandoren's reeds. i.e. other people could move to other reed companies, ergo losing sales.
that's the issue at hand if the rumors are true or not.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: kev182
Date: 2007-08-07 06:20
I'll be happy if they have gotten harder! I have always wanted a 4.25 strength V12. Is it true Vandoren is going to be switching to 100% flow packaging? If so when?
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2007-08-07 07:16
GBK- you should really consider using the cool search function on this BBoard. ;-) This has been discussed a few times this year already, eg:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=249719&t=249702
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-08-07 11:48
Liquorice wrote:
> GBK- you should really consider using the cool search function
> on this BBoard. ;-) This has been discussed a few times this
> year already, eg:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=249719&t=249702
Thanks - that was a thread I had completely forgotten about, and perhaps further confirmation(?) of the above.
Of course, we'll probably never be certain, but I am now starting to give Larry Bocaner's theory (in that thread) much more credence:
Quote:
"...Could Vandoren have switched from (porous) Argentine cane for their V12's to (firmer) French or Spanish cane?..."
...GBK
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Author: Jude
Date: 2007-08-07 13:01
Paul,
I have only been playing for a few years, so not sure if this is what you are looking for, but if it is, great!
I was in this shop and they had some old boxes of Vandoren reeds that might have been a lilac colour (can't remember as it was a few months back) - might they be the 'white label' boxes mentioned in the PDF file??
http://www.myatt.co.uk/spec-off.htm
Best of luck - sorry I don't know how to make the URL a proper link.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-08-07 13:53
Perhaps it is the heat and humidity here in Pennsylvania, but I had to switch from 3.5 Traditionals to 4.0 for now.
For the V12s, I find no great difference, with the 4s and 3.5s overlapping on the stiffness scale.
FOFs come in at .5 stiffer per gradation over the VDs
(Seinfeld impression begins here)......What is with the notion of VD switching to all flowpack packaging.? Is this true?
I hate the flowpacks.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-08-07 15:44
I haven't noticed any change at all...I use 4 and 41/2 reeds V12
David Dow
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Author: D
Date: 2007-08-07 16:39
well I certainly haven't been playing enough so that is my problem. The reeds do seem harder but I am yet to be convinced it is not my fault!
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